QA问答：如果火星土壤有毒，又无法进行地形改造，也无法保持大气层，为什么埃隆·马斯克如此坚定地要在那里建立一个殖民地？
If Martian soil is toxic, can''''''''t be terraformed, and there is no way to retain an atmosphere, why is Elon Musk so determined to plant a colony there?
译文简介
火星的土壤没有毒性。它只是含有过氯酸盐，过氯酸盐可以抑制人体的生长。然而，过氯酸盐的水溶性非常强，可以用水清洗。还有一些细菌，要可以消耗过氯酸盐。
正文翻译
If Martian soil is toxic, can''''t be terraformed, and there is no way to retain an atmosphere, why is Elon Musk so determined to plant a colony there?
如果火星土壤有毒，又无法进行地形改造，也无法保持大气层，为什么埃隆·马斯克如此坚定地要在那里建立一个殖民地？
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The soil is not toxic. It has perchlorates, which inhibit growth in humans. However, it is very water soluble and can be cleaned up. There are also bacteria available that consume perchlorates.
While it would be incredibly hard to terraform, it is still possible to live there. You take pressurized habitats and greenhouses and create a very pleasant indoor environment that spans acres. You need a spacesuit to go outside, but can live comfortably indoors. The plants not only provide food, they recycle your oxygen. Our bodily waste feeds and waters the plants. You create a closed self-sustaining eco-system.
The point of doing it is survival of the species. Our species is too fragile on a single planet. Whether it is a meteor or nuclear war, there are so many ways we could be wiped out. Many scientist doubt that our species will last unless we do spread out.
火星的土壤没有毒性。它只是含有过氯酸盐，过氯酸盐可以抑制人体的生长。然而，过氯酸盐的水溶性非常强，可以用水清洗。还有一些细菌，也可以消耗过氯酸盐。
虽然地形改造会非常困难，但在那里生活仍然是可能的。你可以建造有正常气压的栖息地和温室，创造一个占地数英亩的非常宜人的室内环境。你需要一件宇航服才能出门，但可以在室内舒适地生活。种植的植物不仅可以提供食物，还可以再循环你吸收的氧气。我们的排泄物可以喂养和浇灌植物。你可以创造一个封闭的可自我维持的生态系统。
这样做的目的是为了物种的生存。我们这个物种，只能在一个星球上生存，太脆弱了。无论是流星还是核战争，我们都有可能被消灭。许多科学家认为，除非我们分散开来生存，否则，对于我们这个物种是否能够持续生存下去，他们持怀疑态度。
Firstly - bear in mind Musk’s motive here.
He believes (correctly, IMHO) that humanity will eventually be wiped out - perhaps by a killer-meteorite impact - perhaps by global nuclear war - perhaps by a pandemic disease - perhaps by the eruption of the Yellowstone Super-Volcano - perhaps by runaway global warming.
The idea is to build a small (by human standards) colony somewhere OTHER than Earth which could survive a global catastrophe on Earth - and eventually return to re-populate the Earth.
That requires a 100% self-sufficient off-earth colony…of sufficient size to have a gene-pool large enough to continue the arts and sciences - and to repopulate the Earth without too much of a genetic bottleneck and associated in-breeding.
Mars is literally the ONLY place (other than Earth) that could support a within reach of plausible technology - and could ever become a self-sustaining colony.
首先，请记住马斯克的动机。
他相信（我认为，确实如此）人类最终将被毁灭——也许是被致命的陨石撞击——也许是全球核战争——也许是流行病——也许是黄石超级火山的爆发——也许是失控的全球变暖。
在地球以外的地方，建立一个小的（从人类标准来说）殖民地，它可以让人类在地球上发生全球灾难的时候，从中幸存下来，并最终返回地球重新定居。
这需要一个100%自给自足的地球外殖民地……有足够的规模，拥有足够大的基因库来继续艺术和科学，并在没有太多基因瓶颈和繁殖相关问题的情况下重新繁殖地球。
火星实际上是唯一一个（除了地球）可以支持可行技术的地方，并且可能建立一个可自我维持的殖民地。
Actually, I’ve seen it proposed multiple times here on Quora, that an atmospheric colony (a la Cloud City from Star Wars) on Venus is much more plausible. The pressure in the upper atmosphere of Venus is similar to Earth’s. The gravity is similar, as well. The temperature would be tolerable at altitude. One could even walk around outside with an oxygen mask. Venus seems a better candidate for a sustainable colony than Mars.
事实上，我在Quora上，多次看到有人提出，在金星上建立一个有大气层的殖民地更为合理，就像《星球大战》中的云城一样。金星高层大气的压力与地球的压力相似。重力也是相似的。在高海拔地区，气温是可以忍受的。人们甚至可以戴着氧气面罩在外面走来走去。金星似乎比火星更适合成为一个可持续发展的殖民地。
There maybe some advantages but Venus is an even less baked idea than Mars. Falling to your death in high pressure acid is just another way to die horribly
也许有一些优势，但金星是一个比火星更不成熟的想法。在高压酸液中摔死，是另一种可怕的死亡方式。
They'd be just as dangerous as living in skyscrapers. It's not usual people accidentally falling to their deaths in skyscrapers.
Having a near zero atmosphere has a lot of challenges, not only the pressure differential in the habitats but most importantly radiation.
这和住在摩天大楼里的危险差不多。人们在摩天大楼里意外摔死的情况并不常见。
接近零的大气有很多挑战，不仅是栖息地的压差，最重要的是辐射。
Mars has the advantages
A rocket crash would just make a crater instead of taking out the whole habitat.
Lava tubes are ready made radiation resistant structures that “only” need to be sealed.
mars has structural materials that can be used for construction.
Mars has water oxygen and CO2. Not sure about Venus though.
火星有优势。
火箭撞击只会形成一个弹坑，而不会摧毁整个栖息地。
熔岩管是现成的抗辐射结构，“只”需要密封。
火星拥有可用于建筑的结构材料。
火星上有水、氧气和二氧化碳。但金星不太确定。
Neither planet has surface water.
A quick google shows Venus has 20 ppm water vapour in the atmosphere. Mars has 0.03% which is 300 ppm. But Venus’s pressure is 1,350 psi vs Mars’s 0.088, in other words 15,340 times more, meaning by volume Venus has 15340 * 20/300 = 1023 times more water in the atmoshere at the surface. It also has almost the same volume more CO2. CO2 is 73% Oxygen by weight.
Mars does not really have more oxygen or water.
这两颗行星都没有地表水。
我用谷歌快速的查了下，金星大气层中有20 ppm的水蒸气。火星有0.03%，即300ppm。
但金星的气压是1350磅/平方英寸，而火星的压力是0.088磅/平方米，换言之，是火星的15340倍，这意味着金星表面大气中的水的体积，比火星多15340*20/300=1023倍。它还含有几乎相同体积的更多的二氧化碳。CO2是73%重量的氧气。
火星实际上并没有更多的氧气或水。
I agree that this would be how a mars colony would function, the question is, at that point why not just build massive space habitat?
我同意，如果有一个火星殖民地，会有巨大的作用。问题是，为什么不建造大规模的太空栖息地呢？
Gravity is the problem. Mars has 1/3 Earth’s gravity, and Venus is something like 90.4% Earth’s gravity. Nothing we can do about that unless Einstein was wrong about spacetime.
重力是个问题。火星的引力是地球的三分之一，金星的引力大约是地球的90.4%。我们对此无能为力，除非爱因斯坦对时空的看法是错误的。
Every argument in favour of Mars is outweighed by one fact: microgravity has significantly dexerious effects on the human eye and the human musculoskeletal system.
If the “repopulation” occurred fairly soon after establishing the Mars colony, it’s probable that there would be few issues in returning to the Earth, but in as few as 100 generations there’s a distinct possibility that the spindly, weak-muscled, basically blind New Martians would not be able to survive on the newly-rugged Earth.
The people from the Cloud Cities of Venus would be dealing with nearly identical gravity and air pressure, and so would have no difficulties (physically) returning to Earth, although the psychological impact of standing on solid ground rather than a floating platform would likely have major impacts. That would be difficult, but less so than being unable to see or walk.
每一个支持火星的论点，都被一个事实所压倒：微重力对人眼和人类肌肉骨骼系统，有着严重的有害影响。
如果“重新繁殖”事件，发生在火星殖民地建立后不久，那么返回地球可能不会有什么问题。否则，在100代人的时间内，细长、肌肉无力、基本失明的新火星人，很有可能无法在最近变得崎岖不平的地球上生存。
来自金星云城的人们，将面临几乎相同的重力和气压，因此（身体上）返回地球不会有任何困难，尽管站在坚实的地面上，而不是漂浮的平台上的心理影响，可能会比较大。这将是困难的，但比看不见或走不动要容易得多。
The Moon and Venus are much easier than Mars. Actually, installing an Earth-like atmosphere on the Moon would be totally possible and even without some sort of artificial magnetosphere to keep the air in, the atmosphere would last about ten thousand years.
月球和金星比火星容易得多。事实上，在月球上安装类似地球的大气层是完全可能的，即使没有某种人工磁层来保持空气，大气层也会持续大约一万年。
I heard it's the moon dust and the temperature shifts that are a huge threat there, not to mention the naked radiation.
我听说，月尘和温度变化，构成了巨大的威胁，更不用说赤裸裸的辐射了。
No — moon dust is far, far deadlier than raw volcanic ash, and not just to humans but to machinery, so it’s not at all “almost identical to what;s on Earth”.
不，月尘远比未经处理的火山灰更致命，不仅对人类，对机械也更致命，因此它与地球上的尘埃“几乎完全不同”。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I should have been more clear and I was in another comment. The moon dust would need to be mechanically processed and mixed with organic material. Almost identical in chemical composition was what I meant. Mars is trickier as it contains perchlorates.
我本应该说得更清楚，我在另一条评论中说过了。月球尘埃需要进行机械加工，并与有机材料混合。我的意思是化学成分几乎相同。火星更棘手，因为它含有过氯酸盐。
installing an Earth-like atmosphere on the Moon would be totally possible and even without some sort of artificial magnetosphere to keep the air in, the atmosphere would last about ten thousand years.
Do you have a source for that? Seems like the low gravity would be a problem for maintaining an atmosphere with sufficient pressure to be livable?
“在月球上安装一个类似地球的大气层是完全可能的，即使没有某种人工磁层来保持空气，大气层也将持续大约一万年。”
你有消息来源吗？低重力好像对维持足够的气压，保持一个宜居的大气层是个重大的问题？
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Yeah I’d like to see where he got the idea for moon atmosphere.
是的，我想看看他是从哪里想到月球大气层的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Here’s one source. It’s not as technical as the others I’ve seen, but it’s a nice summary, plus, it’s fun, which is the spirit in which I posted my first comment, which Steve Baker, accurately labeled ‘Batshit’.
A Terraformed Moon Would Be an Awful Lot Like Florida
这里有一个消息来源。它不像我看到的其他评论那样技术性特别强，但它是一个很好的总结，此外，它很有趣，这就是我发布第一条评论的依据，Steve Baker 准确地将其标记为“完全疯狂的”。
链接：像佛罗里达州一样，人造月球将是一个可怕的地方
That’s insane. The surface area of the Moon is 7% that of Earth - so to get an equally dense atmosphere would require at least 7% of the mass of the Earth’s atmosphere - which is 5.5 quadrillion tonnes. 7% of that is 380 trillion tonnes.
Actually, with the Moon’s 1/6th gravity - you’d need to make the atmosphere MUCH thicker in order for it to exert enough pressure on the lower atmosphere for it to be ‘Earthlike’.
这太疯狂了。月球的表面积是地球的7%，因此要获得同样密度的大气层，至少需要地球大气层质量的7%，地球大气层质量为5.5千万亿吨。它的7%为380万亿吨。
事实上，由于月球的1/6重力，你需要让大气层变得更厚，才能对低层大气施加足够的压力，使其成为“类似地球”的样子。
Good luck shipping 2.3 quadrillion tonnes to the Moon.
Oh - and I’m not sure the people of Earth would be too keen on you stealing 40% of their atmosphere to ship to the Moon - so I’d be interested to hear where the hell you think you’re going to get all of that air from?
因此，最终，你将需要大约2.3千万亿吨的氧气和氮气。
祝你好运，向月球运送2.3千万亿吨。
哦——我不确定地球上的人，会不会允许你窃取他们40%的大气层，运送到月球——所以我很想知道,你认为你会从哪里得到所有的空气？
If you have a million people living on the Moon, every man, woman and child of them would have to personally ship a million tonnes of air to the Moon every year.
Yes - your idea is indeed batshit crazy.
即使你能以某种方式从其他地方运送2.3千万亿吨，你也必须在不到1万年的时间内完成，因为（正如你所指出的）糟糕的引力和缺乏磁层，将使所有这些工作付之东流。因此，你需要每年向月球输送至少一万亿吨以上的大气层，以保持密度。
如果你有一百万人生活在月球上，他们中的每个男人、女人和孩子每年都必须亲自向月球运送一百万吨空气。
是的，你的想法真的是太疯狂了。
It wasn’t my idea and I DIDN’T CLAIM IT WAS!!!
And I didn’t say it was easy, and yes the idea is nuts, but there have been a couple of scenarios that outline it.
Terraforming Mars? Not a chance.
这不是我的主意，我也没有声称是我的！！！
我没有说这很容易，是的，这个想法很疯狂，但有几个地方曾经提到过这个方法。
火星的地形？没有机会。
You stated it as a fact - not as someone elses’ opinion - so you get to own the criticism.
你把它说成是事实，而不是别人的意见，所以你要接受批评。
Fair enough. The comment wasn’t one of my best. This is why I try not use my phone to comment.
接受你的说法，但有所保留。这个评论不是我最好的评论之一。这就是为什么我尽量不使用手机发表评论。
Love your mea-culpa. We all should learn this.
爱你的道歉。我们都应该学习这一点。
Thanks!
谢谢！
I read that article. Complete fantasy.
我读了那篇文章。完全的幻想。
Atmospheres are held in by gravity, not magnetospheres
大气是由重力而非磁层控制的。
The magnetosphere keeps the the atmosphere from being stripped away by solar particles and is a radiation shield.
磁层防止大气被太阳粒子剥离，是辐射屏蔽层。
Exactly the only thing that’s available to the Venusian colony would be what’s in the atmosphere. Maybe just maybe we could make plastics.
金星殖民地唯一可用的东西，就是大气层中的东西。也许只是也许，我们可以制造和使用塑料制品。
Yep - right up to the point where one of the bearings on the motor that drives the plastics making machine fails and you need a steel ball-bearing to fix it.
是的，直到驱动塑料制造机的电机上的一个轴承出现故障，你需要一个钢球轴承来修复它。
I agree I’d much rather walk outside and mine some iron than faff around with sulphuric acid.
Also even in the bearing didn’t fail just dropping a wrench outside would be a catastrophic loss of resources.
我同意，我宁愿走到外面采一些铁，也不愿在硫酸里闲逛。
此外，即使在轴承没有故障的情况下，仅仅把扳手掉到外面，就会造成灾难性的资源损失。
The kind of technology we would need to actually establish some kind of flying city is way more implausible than a ground colony on Mars. We actually are able to build closed off environments with a self-containing ecosystem inside. There’s lots of details to consider, and still much that can go wrong, sure. But there’s so much more that could go wrong in a flying city of a planet with the worst weather of the solar system that it#s not even close.
我们建立某种飞行城市所需要的技术，比在火星的地面上建立殖民地，更令人难以置信。
事实上，我们能够建立一个封闭的环境，里面有一个自我包容的生态系统。有很多细节需要考虑，当然还有很多出错的可能。
但是，在一个拥有太阳系最恶劣天气的飞行城市里，可能会出现的问题更多，两者的难度连接近都做不到。
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The part that gets me about this proposition is that all the stuff you would need to do for Mars, you would have to do for a flying city. And then some.
And…Mars has resources that include iron, aluminum and magnesium. Even the perchlorates in the soil can be reacted to provide oxygen.
我对这个命题的理解是，你需要为火星做的所有事情，都必须为飞行城市做。然后还有一些别的需要做。
而且…火星的资源包括铁、铝和镁。甚至土壤中的过氯酸盐也可以发生反应，提供氧气。
I didn’t even think of that. How to get any resources on Venus, if you can’t touch the ground because everything will die a heat death in seconds there?
我从来都没考虑过金星。你要如何在金星上获得任何资源？你无法接触地面，因为你一旦接触地面，一切都会在几秒钟内凋零在高温中。
Seems like a problem to me. And…if you want to go asteroid mining, Mars is one helluva lot closer than Venus.
对我来说这似乎是个问题。而且……如果你想去小行星采矿，火星比金星要近得多。
Pressure and temperature in a Venusian cloud city sound appealing. However it would be much more difficult to build a floating city rather than simply providing a pressurized city on Mars. Venus also has magnitudes greater difficulty in collecting basic raw materials from the surface. Also far greater difficulty in returning people and goods from the colony back to orbit for a return to Earth due to the much higher gravity. In light of this, I think Mars is the best option.
金星云城的气压和温度听起来很吸引人。然而，建造一个漂浮的城市，比在火星上简单地提供一个加压的城市，要困难得多。金星在从星球表面收集基本原材料方面，也有更大的困难。此外，由于更高的重力，将殖民地的人员和货物，送回轨道返回地球的难度要大得多。有鉴于此，我认为火星是最好的选择。
I disagree that Mars is the best place for a 'human reserve colony’. The moon would be better. Mars is a long way from Earth and has little to offer that the Moon doesn't. What the Moon lacks (a thin CO2 atmosphere) would be easier to get from Earth.
But really, there is no need to seek refuge on other worlds. First, a self sustaining off-world colony is unlikely to survive. Genetic bottlenecks, mental distress (look at the effects of COVID lockdowns!), a naive ecosystem and limited supplies would all take their toll. These issues would be easier to address with an underwater colony, where supplies could be brought in by comparatively easy missions to the surface.
The dream of off-world colonies is pure 1950s scifi fanboying, with a big dollop of imperialism, not a genuine strategy for humans to survive the end of the world.
我不同意：火星是“人类后备殖民地”的最佳位置。月亮会更好。火星离地球很远，几乎没有月球不能提供的东西。月球所缺乏的（稀薄的二氧化碳大气层）将更容易从地球上获得。
但实际上，没有必要在其他星球寻求庇护。首先，一个自给自足的球外殖民地不太可能生存下来。基因瓶颈、精神痛苦（看看新冠疫情封锁的影响！）、幼稚的生态系统和有限的供应都会造成损失。这些问题将更容易通过水下殖民地来解决，在那里，可以通过相对容易的水面任务来运送物资。
星球外殖民地的梦想，纯粹是20世纪50年代的科幻狂热，带有大量帝国主义色彩，而不是人类在世界末日生存的真正战略。
Yup. As far as technology is concerned humans are nowhere near capable in building a self sustaining colony. Hell we can't even fix our pollution and wastage problems on Earth and that's despite Earth is of all purpose and intent much more hospitable than pretty much literally everywhere else.
Without solving all issues on Earth first there is no way humans could proceed in building a working colony on Mars.
是的。就技术而言，人类远远没有能力建立一个自我维持的殖民地。见鬼，我们甚至无法解决地球上的污染和浪费问题，尽管地球具有所有的目的和意图，比其他任何地方都要好客得多。
如果不首先解决地球上的所有问题，人类就不可能在火星上建立一个可运转的殖民地。
Fully agree… if we cannot even keep a pre-existing, functioning ecosystem going, how are we going to build a new ecosystem from scratch? I think that most people really underestimate the amount of things we get for free from the living environment on earth.
完全同意……如果我们甚至不能保持一个预先存在的、正常运行的生态系统，我们将如何从头开始建立一个新的生态系统？我认为大多数人真的低估了我们从地球上的生活环境中免费获得的东西的数量。
Well even if humanity isn’t brought to the brink by some external source, the fact still remains that resources are finite so becoming a multi-planet species is a must.
即使人类不被某种外部源头带到边缘，但事实仍然是，资源是有限的，因此成为一个多星球物种是必须的。
But Earth's resources are vast compared to those on Mars. If we accept that Earth's resources are finite (and Earth's resources are largely recyclable, making most of them essentially infinite) then why should we expend limited resources sending a few people to colonies Mars to appease the ego of a billionaire? We need to send ~2000 people of reproductive age, with enough resources to breath, eat, have medicine, entertainment, tools, supplies, etc. Spend the resources developing cost effective closed loop recycling and an excess of renewable electricity — the excess can then be used to decarbonise the atmosphere. What a legacy that would be for all humanity!
但与火星上的资源相比，地球上的资源是巨大的。如果我们承认地球的资源是有限的（而地球的资源在很大程度上是可回收的，使大多数资源基本上是无限的），那么我们为什么要花费有限的资源将少数人送往火星殖民地，以满足一个亿万富翁的自负呢？我们需要派遣大约2000名育龄人口，他们要有足够的资源，呼吸、吃饭、吃药、娱乐、工具、用品等。如果把这些资源用于开发成本效益高的闭环回收和多余的可再生电力，然后，多余的电力可以用于大气脱碳。这将是全人类的一份多么伟大的遗产啊！
Why can’t both be done? Plan B is always a good idea.
We should refrain from telling other how they should spend THEIR resources. We could make the world a better place if every smoker put the money they spent on smoking towards cancer research or even the money we spend on Netflix.
Why do you think said billionaires should spend money on what you think is right? (You may be wrong)
为什么不能两者都做？B计划总是个好主意。
我们应该避免告诉其他人应该如何使用他们的资源。如果每个吸烟者，都把他们在吸烟上花费的钱用于癌症研究，甚至是我们在Netflix上花费的资金，那么我们可以让世界变得更美好。
你为什么认为亿万富翁，应该把钱花在你认为正确的事情上？（你可能错了）
There are finite resources, even for billionaires. It's not the money so much as what skills the money is occupying. If the aim, as stated, is to preserve humanity past some existential crisis, then the money — and resources — should be spent on that goal, not on a Mars colony. If billionaires want to spend on a Mars colony, they should go ahead — but they mustn't market it as humanity's hope for survival. Just sell it as a Mars colony for rich folk to live out their sci-fi dreams. But if the aim is to save humanity, the only options to achieve that aim are ones that mitigate potential crises, not trying to have a reserve of humanity. We have seed banks to protect against loss of entire plant types. We have methods to limit blight from monoculture farming. We have advanced vaccines to mitigate against pandemics. We even have steps to protect against nuclear war and deal with radiation.
Musk's best options for saving humanity are not SpaceX and the Boring Co, they are his battery and solar tile companies. They will help decarbonise the air. If only he was doing more in the renewables sector…
即使是亿万富翁，资源也是有限的。与其说是钱，不如说是钱占据的技能。
如前所述，如果目标是保护人类度过生存危机，那么资金和资源就应该用于这一目标，而不是用于火星殖民地。
如果亿万富翁们，想在火星殖民地上花钱，他们可以继续——但他们不能把它宣传为人类生存的希望。
把它作为火星殖民地出售，让富人实现他们的科幻梦想。
但是，如果目标是拯救人类，那么实现这一目标的唯一选择就是缓解潜在危机，而不是试图拥有人类备份体。
我们有种子库来防止整个植物类型的损失。我们有办法限制单一种植造成的枯萎病。我们有先进的疫苗来缓解流行病。我们甚至可以采取措施防止核战争和应对辐射。
马斯克拯救人类的最佳选择，不是SpaceX和The boring company（公司名），而是他的电池和太阳能瓦片公司。它们将有助于空气脱碳。如果他能在可再生能源领域，做得更多就更好了……