为什么印度的火车又慢又脏，跟中国完全没得比。
Indian trains are slow and dirty as hell.
译文简介
在你说这是世界上最大的铁路系统或其他什么之前，先听我说。
正文翻译
Indian trains are slow and dirty as hell.
印度的火车又慢又脏。
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在你说这是世界上最大的铁路系统或其他什么之前，先听我说。我去马纳利旅行，用了很多火车，包括两层空调列车、Vande Bharat（译注：印度本土制造的半高速列车）和Shatabdi Express（译注：Shatabdi Express列车是印度铁路公司运营的一系列连接重要地铁城市的快速客运列车）。我告诉你，除了新的Vande Bharat，这些火车都非常慢。如果我们跟中国相比（与这个国家相比会让我们得出确切的理由，因为印度和中国在1980年代有同样的问题），现在的中国火车是非常干净和快速的，比如我们最快的火车Vande Bharat最大速度可达120-140公里/小时。这是中国普通火车的速度，而他们最快的火车大约是240-260公里/小时。我想一定是哪里什么出了问题，有人知道是为什么吗？
Tracks are the problem. The tracks the only meant to run trains at 90-100 kmph, It need renovation and this will impact money, time, trains, jobs and everything in the railway.
轨道是问题所在。印度的铁轨仅用于以 90-100 公里/小时的速度运行火车，它需要翻新，这将影响金钱、时间、火车、工作和铁路中的一切。
I haven't been on a train like almost 6 years , they were always dirty, I have seen shit all over the bathroom n the sink area full of pan spitting
This was rajdhani
Don't want to offend anyone but most Indians basically don't respect public property n have no regards for hygiene
Their ticket booking on IRCTC is like booking a ticket on a dial up, n tatkal is worse
我差不多 6 年没坐过火车了，它们总是很脏，我看到过厕所里到处都是屎，水槽区到处都是痰之类的东西
这是我乘坐rajdhani线的经历（译注：Rajdhani Express是印度铁路运营的一系列旅客列车服务，连接国家首都新德里与各邦的首府或最大城市）
我不想冒犯任何人，但大多数印度人基本上不尊重公共财产，也不关心卫生问题。
在IRCTC上订票就像在拨号上订票一样，Tatkal更糟糕。
（译注：IRCTC印度铁路票务中心；Tatkal印度列车的一种）
Tatkal booking on IRCTC is a pain a lot of times. Other than that it works fairly well.
很多时候在IRCTC 预订Tatkal火车票很痛苦。除此之外，它工作得很好。
Everyone says the ticket booking system is trash but as a foreigner I've never had any issues logging on at 10AM and booking Tatkal tickets or normal tickets either, I'd know because I've been using trains across the entire country now for over four months.
If you are booking in person at the reservation center.. now that is dial up.
每个人都说订票系统很垃圾，但作为一个外国人，我在上午 10 点登录并预订 Tatkal 车票或普通车票时从未遇到过任何问题，我很清楚，因为我已经在印度各地使用火车超过四个月。
如果你亲自在预订中心预订……那就是拨号。
Puducherry
It used to be very horrible and stressful but things have gone better. The website used to be archiac and slow but it changed a lot thanks to some good railway ministers we had recently.
它曾经非常差劲和压力很大，但情况已经好转了。该网站曾经是过时而缓慢的，但由于我们最近有了一些优秀的铁路部长，它发生了很大变化。
OP
It's worse now a days
现在明明更糟了
It is a mirror of the people who travel in it.
旅行中的行为举止是反映一个人的一面镜子。
It exactly is. There is nothing to look down upon it though.
确实如此。不过也没什么好看不起的。
Cleanliness, in a public place, is something that I, personally, will always frown upon. There's no excuse, none, for not maintaining basic cleanliness.
就我个人而言，印度公共场所的清洁度是我永远没办法赞成的。没有理由不保持基本清洁。
Totally. But you need to understand society is made up of different sections and not everyone is economically well off.
You look at it as a cleanliness issue. I look at it as an issue with the fabric of the society where the rich never let opportunities and education reach the economically weaker section of the society.
That's why a general compartment is not as clean as the 3A or 2A.
完全正确。但你要明白社会是由不同阶层组成的，不是每个人都经济条件好。
你把它看成是一个清洁问题。我认为这是一个社会结构的问题，富人从来没有让机会和教育延伸到社会中经济能力较弱的那部分人那里。
这就是为什么普通车厢没有3A或2A车厢那么干净。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Everybody keeps their house clean, irrespective of being rich and poor. They just need to implement that in public space. Not asking for anything else. Also, railways needs to put cleaning staff in other compartments too, not just AC. How they're going to achieve that in a general compartment, is beyond my imagination.
每个人都会保持家里的清洁，不分贫富。他们只需要在公共空间中延申这一点即可。不要求别的。另外，铁路部门也需要在其他车厢配备清洁人员，而不仅仅是空调车厢。至于他们要如何在普通车厢里实现这一点，我无法想象。
What made you feel Vande Bharat is faster? It's the same speed as Shatabadis.
是什么让你觉得 Vande Bharat 更快？它与 Shatabadis 的速度相同。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Simple.
a) Indian railways is bloated with padhe likhe gawars, like most gov. institutions
b) It is forced to subsidize expenses because the vast majority wouldn't be able to afford it otherwise. We all know that railways is like the artery of the country.
c) After accounting for the bloat and waived expenses, it doesn't really have much to invest in improving infrastructure and acquiring more, and faster rakes. It can't even succeed commercially, think freight, because it has to jack the prices up. That's why a lot of freight is carried on road and a big reason behind India's traffic problems.
Now you may wonder, why can't our people afford something so basic? Well, India is not a manufacturing country. It is an agricultural country where the service sector carries development. This means a small population will have to provide for the majority and that is not sustainable.
Now you might ask, why doesn't the government implement measures to boost incomes across income levels and manufacturing competitiveness. Well, India is a messy democracy. It doesn't matter which sector you tackle first. Structural agricultural reforms will be resisted by Punjab and Haryana, vested interests, the opposition and champagne socialists. Structural factor reforms will be resisted by politically backed trade unxs mafias, vested interests, the opposition and champagne socialists.
In the end, two things can happen. The majority will remain poor and railways will be forced to underinvest. The tax paying population will just resent everyone and wonder when they'll get their money's worth. Or, the majority will remain poor but railways will still invest into infrastructure at the expense of those poor (and old). BJP is doing the latter. It has built more route km in 10 years than Congress in ~55-60. Electrified more route km than Congress (at a faster rate). Renovating and building more railway stations, etc. But at the same time, it is cutting subsidies, even eliminating them all together for certain age groups (I believe over a certain age?). Adding more fixed contract employees and outsourcing several activities and functions.
China got its shit in order because it invested into infrastructure from the get go. From public money and valuable foreign exchange that it received as a result of its manufacturing base, which pulled hundreds of millions of people into the middle class who could afford this new infrastructure, essentially becoming a virtuous cycle.
On the other hand, we had Congress in power for at least 5 decades. Minimum investment in infrastructure in general and also kept >90% of the population poor with poor economic policymaking.
很简单。
a) 印度铁路公司像大多数政府机构一样，被腐败无能的人所充斥。
b) 它被迫补贴开支，因为否则绝大多数人都负担不起。而我们都知道，铁路就像国家的大动脉。
c) 在考虑到臃肿和免除的费用后，它实际上并没有太多投资来改善基础设施和获得更多、更快的抽成。它甚至无法在商业上取得成功，比如货运，因为它必须抬高价格。这就是为什么大量的货物是通过公路运输的，也是印度交通问题背后的一个重要原因。
现在你可能会问，为什么我们的人民负担不起这么基本的东西？嗯，印度不是一个制造业大国。它是一个服务行业承载着农业发展的国家。这意味着一小部分人将不得不为大多数人提供服务，而这是不可持续的。
现在你可能会问，为什么政府不实施措施来提高收入水平和制造业竞争力。好吧，印度是一个混乱的民主国家。你想先解决哪个领域的问题并不重要。结构性农业改革将受到旁遮普邦和哈里亚纳邦、既得利益者、反对派和香槟社会主义者（译注：专有名词，对社会主义者的贬称）的抵制。结构性要素改革将受到政治支持的工会黑手党、既得利益者、反对派和香槟社会主义者的抵制。
最后，可能会发生两种情况。大多数人仍将贫穷，铁路将被迫投资不足。纳税人会怨恨每个人，并想知道他们的钱什么时候能花到刀刃上。或者，大多数人仍然贫穷，但铁路仍将以牺牲那些穷人（和老年人）为代价投资于基础设施。 BJP 正在做后者。它在 10 年内建造的路线公里数比国大党在 55-60 年内建造的还要多。电气化路线公里数比国大党多（速度更快）。改造和建设更多的火车站等。但同时，它正在削减补贴，甚至取消对某些年龄段（我相信在超过一定年龄段后？）的补贴。增加更多的固定合同员工并外包一些活动和职能。
中国之所以把事情搞得井井有条，是因为它从一开始就投资于基础设施。由于其制造业基础，中国获得了公共资金和宝贵的外汇，这使得数以亿计的人进入中产阶级，他们能够负担得起这些新的基础设施，基本上形成了一个良性的循环。
另一方面，我们的国大党至少有50年的执政时间。总的来说，对基础设施的投资很少，而且还以糟糕的经济政策制定使>90%的人口处于贫困状态。
Puducherry
Not interested in your political argument but I want to point out Railways is one of the largest land owning Public company in India and yet a huge amount of it goes to waste. Like if you see chennai local railway stations they are so huge but mostly empty if they commercialise it they can bloody hell even run the trains for free.
对你的政治论点不感兴趣，但我想指出铁路是印度最大的拥有土地的上市公司之一，但大量的土地被浪费了。就像你看到钦奈当地的火车站一样，它们是如此之大，但它们大多是空的，如果他们把它商业化，他们甚至可以他妈的免费运营火车。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I agree with rest of your points, but one
I know the owner of a small trucking company. They once told me the the trucks that transport cars are sometimes loaded onto the trains, as this saves money: cars being transported by truck, being transported by a train.
This is probably not the case in most cases and regions, and probably train transportation cost is rising, but its still cheaper than road
Btw didnt read past the fourth para
我同意你其他的观点，但有一点：
我认识一家小型卡车运输公司的老板。他们曾经告诉我，运输汽车的卡车有时会被装到火车上，因为这样可以省钱：汽车由卡车运输，卡车由火车运输。
这可能不是大多数情况和地区的情况，而且火车运输成本可能正在上升，但它仍然比公路便宜。
顺便说一下，我没有看第四段之后的内容
What the fuck are you talking? This reads more like a Sanghi WhatsApp forward.
You blame everything on so called champagne socialists. Have you wondered why everybody opposes Modi and his tughlaqi policies? Because he doesn't listen to experts. He thinks he is a know it all and does things on his whims. His demonetisation was a spectacular failure, GST is so messed up with so many tax slabs, his policies have led to slowdown in growth since last 5 years. Do you know India has barely grown in the last 5 years? And no, COVID is not responsible. Even before COVID, growth rate was slowing down
Now, let's come to farm laws. Did Modi consult farm unxs before passing these looney laws? Why was there a clause in the laws which stated any legal disagreements between buyer and farmers wouldn't be taken to court? If Modi is so desperate to implement farm laws, why doesn't he ask Gujarat, Maharashtra and MP govt to do it? Agriculture is a state subject and these states can easily do it.
你他妈的在说什么？这读起来更像是印度教民主主义者 WhatsApp内容的转发。
你把一切都归咎于所谓的香槟社会主义者。你有没有想过，为什么每个人都反对莫迪和他的图格鲁克政策？因为他不听专家的意见。他认为自己是个万事通，做事随心所欲。他的去货币化是一个惊人的失败，GST（译注：商品和服務稅）是如此混乱，有这么多的税种，他的政策导致了过去5年以来的增长放缓。你知道印度在过去5年里几乎没有增长吗？不，不是COVID的责任。甚至在COVID之前，增长速度就已经放缓了。
现在，让我们来谈谈农场法。莫迪在通过这些疯狂的法律之前，有没有咨询过农场工会？为什么法律中有一个条款规定，买方和农民之间的任何法律分歧都不能被诉诸法庭？如果莫迪如此急于实施农业法，他为什么不要求古吉拉特邦、马哈拉施特拉邦和中央邦先实行？农业是一个邦的主体，而这些邦可以很容易地做到这一点。
Gujarat Maha and MP were ready to pass it the opposition was from Punjab, TN and few other states. Check properly some of the laws which they want to change were good and now the protestors are suffering from it.
古吉拉特邦、马哈拉施特拉邦和中央邦已经准备通过它了，反对者来自旁遮普邦、泰米尔纳德邦和其他几个邦。适当地检查一下他们想要改变的一些法律，这些改变是好的，而现在抗议者正因此而受苦。
world's largest railway system
United States 257,560 kms
China 150,000 kms
India 108,706 kms
“世界最大的铁路系统”
美国 257560公里
中国150000公里
印度108706公里
I think he meant the total no. Of passengers.
我想他是指总人数。乘客的总数。
Population is high. We are largest at most things this way.
人口众多。如果是以这种方式算，在大多数事情上我们都是最大的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
like most amount of blind followers, etc /s
比如在世界上最大的盲目追随者等方面/S
Puducherry
train tracks aren't everything. US's entire passenger traffic would be less than one of our regional Railway traffic like say Southern Railway
火车轨道不是一切。美国的整个客运量少于我们区域铁路之一的运输量，例如南方铁路
I agree with you. Passenger train sucks in the USA. If we put all our passenger trains on their network, their employees will suddenly start getting fired. We are already electrified 85%+. China stands nowhere in electrification.
Indian Railways is the lifeline.
我同意你的看法。美国的客运列车做得很糟糕。如果我们把我们所有的客运列车都放到他们的铁路网络上，他们的员工会突然开始被解雇。我们已经实现了85%以上的电气化。中国在电气化方面没有任何进展。
印度铁路是生命线。
Look.
In 1945, China had 27,000 km of rail, of track. In 1947, when India got independence, India had 53,596 Route kms of track.
China today has over 20,000 km of high speed rail lines. This is more than rest of the world combined.
US uses trains for freight. Their highway network is what is used for transporting people. SO that comparison doesnt work.
这么说吧。
1945年，中国有27000公里的铁路，的轨道。1947年，当印度获得独立时，印度有53596路公里的轨道。
今天，中国有超过20000公里的高速铁路线。这比世界其他国家的总和还要多。
美国使用火车进行货运。他们的高速公路网络是用来运输人的。因此，这种比较并不可行。
Puducherry
I agree, but you have to consider both countries have different challenges
我同意，但你必须考虑到两国面临不同的挑战
I only contested that India does not have the biggest railways
我只是想就印度有没有世界上最大的铁路网这方面进行讨论
Slow - May be
Dirty - Yes
慢——可能是
脏——是
Indian Railways saw no radical change for decades. Now only there's a fast track move to upgrade tracks, electrify all routes, upgrade trains and stations too. Will take it's sweet time, but we are definitely moving in a right direction.
Again, we might never be able to compete with China in a foreseeable future but at least we as a public can pledge to keep everything clean.
I never remember to have left any trash in train and have scolded even my family if I found then throwing trash. If everyone follows this, it'll make a day vs night difference.
几十年来，印度铁路没有发生根本性的变化。现在只有一个快速提升的举措，那就是升级轨道，电气化所有路线，升级列车和车站。这需要时间，但我们肯定在朝着正确的方向前进。
同样，在可预见的未来，我们可能永远无法与中国竞争，但至少我们作为公众可以承诺保持一切的清洁。
我从来不记得在火车上留下过任何垃圾，如果我发现我的家人在扔垃圾，我甚至会责骂他们。如果每个人都这样做，情况就会天差地别。
Puducherry
This is not talked about enough, Suresh Prabhu was once explaining how our railways are so stressed and we need a lot of infra development to get better at service, we were even overloading the railway tracks before.
这方面得到的关注不够，苏雷什帕布曾经解释过，我们的铁路压力很大，我们需要大量的基础设施建设以获得更好的服务，我们以前甚至还让铁轨超载过。
Indians are not hygienic people in public.
Indian government doesn't care.
Most people have this "jaisa chal raha, chalne do"* lazy attitude that hampers development
*= " just let it be as it is"
印度人在公共场合是不讲卫生的。
印度政府并不关心。
大多数人都有这种“jaisa chal raha, chalne do ”*的懒惰态度，阻碍了发展。
*=“顺其自然”。
Uttar Pradesh
Bro really compared India with China, just looking at GDP Per Capita of both countries will give you your answers.
兄弟你拿印度和中国比不是认真的吧，只看两国的人均GDP就可以得到答案。
In China they execute corrupt bureaucrats and politicians.
Here we ignore them, transfer them and many times if we need their support, induct them into our party and even make them ministers or give them other responsible positions.
在中国，他们处决腐败的官僚和政客。
在这里，我们无视他们，把他们调走，很多时候，如果我们需要他们的支持，就把他们纳入我们的党内，甚至让他们成为部长或给他们其他有权势的职位。
Chill bro. Indian Railways knows very well about its current status.
Indian Railways is constantly upgrading now.
All the problems that you know which exists in our railway resemble to tracks only. Track doesn't support high speeds. IR is already busy upgrading it.
The Western Railway has achieved 100% fencing between Mumbai and Ahmedabad which is the first step in upgrading the track to speeds like 200kmph+.
The network is really large. It will take some time.
Looking at current speeds, people will doubt in buying tickets of Vande Bharat Express because almost the same speed is achieved in other trains if you exclude facilities, but slowly as we move forward, the price of the tickets will justify it.
冷静点兄弟。印度铁路公司非常清楚其目前的状况。
印度铁路公司现在正在不断升级。
你所知道的存在于我们铁路中的所有问题都只类似于轨道。轨道不支持高速行驶。铁路公司已经在忙着升级它。
西部铁路在孟买和艾哈迈达巴德之间已经实现了100%的围栏，这是升级轨道到200公里/小时以上速度的第一步。
这个网络真的很大。这将需要一些时间。
从目前的速度来看，人们会怀疑购买Vande Bharat Express的车票值不值，因为如果不考虑设施，其他列车几乎也能达到同样的速度，但随着我们的发展，车票的价格会逐渐证明它的合理性的。
Bhai complaint is okay. But let’s talk about the solutions instead. It’s not going to improve without marginalising someone. Like at least need to make tracks inaccessible to people and animals. Or else be okay with killing whoever gets in the way because of their own foolishness.
抱怨是可以的。但让我们来谈谈解决方案。如果不把某人边缘化，就不会有改善。比如至少需要让人和动物无法进入轨道。不然的话，就把那些因为自己的愚蠢而挡路的人杀了也行。
Privatisation
私有化
Puducherry
Leftists coming to kill you 3, 2, 1 .......
左派会来杀你 3，2，1 .......
Physical_Debate_854
Whole whole Govt should be privatised there should be no government
整个政府都应该私有化，不应该有政府
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I think what went wrong anyone knows it?
We weren't fortunate enough to have a brutal dictatorial regime that oppressed people and forced communism on its people. I think we were extremely unlucky that we had a government that didn't give a damn about the people and gave us the freedom to do whatever the heck we wanted.
It's similar to having parents who beat you occasionally but ultimately it's for your own good and the end result is you growing up properly and disciplined. Compared to that we are street urchins who basically had to raise themselves. So no rules, no nothing, just freedom to do whatever and whenever.
“有人知道哪里出了问题吗？”
我们没有幸运地拥有一个压迫人民并将...强加于人民的....。我认为我们非常不走运，因为我们有一个对人民不闻不问的政府，给我们自由，让我们想做什么就做什么。
这类似于父母偶尔打你，但归根结底是为了你好，最终的结果是你正确地、有纪律地成长起来。相比之下，我们是街头顽童，基本上必须养活自己。所以没有规则，什么都没有，只有随时随地做任何事情的自由。
but ultimately it's for your own good and the end result is you growing up properly and disciplined
Nope. It's doesn't make anybody grow up "proper and disciplined", it just suffocates personal development and gives tremendous mental health issues as an adult. Discipline should be internally ingrained, not externally forced, the former leads to a healthy life the latter leads to falling off a cliff later in life
“这类似于父母偶尔打你，但归根结底是为了你好。”
不。它不会让任何人“正确和有纪律地成长”，它只会扼杀个人发展并给成年人带来巨大的心理健康问题。纪律应该是内在的，而不是外在强加的，前者导致健康的生活，后者导致在以后的生活中掉下悬崖。
Puducherry
Cambodia, Laos, Cuba are also Communist countries not just China
柬埔寨、老挝、古巴也是共产主义国家，不仅仅是中国
China is the only so called "Communist" country with the highest number of billionaires after US. A mixed system of communism and capitalism coupled with a heavily authoritarian government has launched the country in a quantum leap of prosperity.
中国是仅次于美国的亿万富翁数量最多的所谓“共产主义”国家。共产主义和资本主义的混合制度加上高度专制的政府使该国实现了繁荣的飞跃。
Bro GDP per capita ka naam suna ha. We don't have proper resources and China have the best rails like no one comes near to them except japan
兄弟看看人均 GDP吧。我们没有合适的资源，而中国拥有最好的铁路，除了日本，没有人能接近它们
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
The problem is not the train ,but the tracks. Most Indian Trains are actually fast, but can't travel at their top speed due to old tracks. The governments for decades have kept launching more and more trains ,whereas the network these trains run on has been more or less the same.Not to say that new tracks haven't been laid,cuz they have ,but not on the scale they should have been.Plus the old tracks are not repaired as often as they should be , so they keep limiting the speed of our trains.
Also , comparing china and India on the basis of infra is not exactly fair , since the biggest roadblock in Indian infra development has always been land acquisition, which never was a problem for China. Biggest example of this is the bullet train project, a project launched in 2014, but the land acquisition for it has still not been completed. But china always has had to just build since they have been a dictatorship since their independence.this is the biggest reason that they have the biggest metro system(95000km), but it is mostly unused . Same can be said for most of the floors of most of the tall skyscrapers they build.
问题不在于火车，而在于轨道。大多数印度火车实际上是很快的，但由于轨道陈旧，无法以其最高速度行驶。几十年来，政府不断推出越来越多的火车，而这些火车运行的网络却几乎没有变化。不是说没有铺设新的轨道，因为它们有，但没有达到应有的规模。再加上旧的轨道没有得到应有的修复，所以它们一直限制着我们火车的速度。
此外，在基础设施的基础上比较中国和印度并不完全公平，因为印度基础设施发展的最大障碍一直是征地，而这对中国来说从来不是问题。这方面最大的例子是子弹头列车项目，该项目于2014年启动，但其征地工作仍未完成。但中国自独立以来一直是一个...国家，所以总是不得不进行建设。这就是他们拥有最大的地铁系统（95000公里）的最大原因，但它大部分都没有使用。他们建造的大多数高大的摩天大楼的大部分楼层也可以这么说。
Either Pay premium of first class AC or shut up.
-Adani
要么支付头等车厢空调的溢价，要么闭嘴。
-阿达尼