中东网友讨论：今天的人们如何看待奥斯曼帝国？
How do people today feel about the Ottoman Empire?
译文简介
作为法国人，我要感谢奥斯曼帝国
正文翻译
How do people today feel about the Ottoman Empire?
今天的人们如何看待奥斯曼帝国？
评论翻译
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USA
Early-Mid ottoman history Based!
Later not so based
美国
早中期的奥斯曼很流啤！
后来就没那么流啤了
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Türkiye
Later sadge in fact
土耳其
事实上后来可以说是一个悲剧
USA
Crazy to think they controlled Greece , Egypt ,Levant ,North Africa And Mesopotamia. So Much history in those lands
美国
一想起他们同时控制了希腊、埃及、黎凡特、北非和美索不达米亚这么多历史悠久的地方真是太疯狂了。
United Arab Emirates
And they managed to rouin all of them at the same time.
阿联酋
他们成功地同时带衰了所有人。
Ottomans ruled Greece longer than they ruled Middle East.
Greece is fine today, so maybe it is about Middle East.
奥斯曼帝国统治希腊的时间比他们统治中东的时间还要长。
希腊现在很好，所以问题可能出于中东自己身上。
Greece is fine?!
希腊很好？！
Greece also was liberated from the ottomans a century earlier, and had more direct funding from the western powers. So maybe it is about the ottomans
希腊也比中东早了一个世纪前从奥斯曼帝国手中解放出来，并从西方列强那里获得了更多的直接资助。所以也许这确实是奥斯曼的问题
Didn’t Greece have a huge economic collapse?
希腊经济不是崩了吗？
Türkiye
Not really. They were all weak and backwards anyway by the time Ottoman came that's how they managed to take those lands.
土耳其
没有的事儿。基本上当奥斯曼帝国崛起时，这些地方都很虚弱和落后，这就是为什么奥斯曼能成功夺取这些土地。
United Arab Emirates
This is a response of someone who never read a history book in their life.
The middle east were backward compared to who? One of the reasons for the Renaissance was the fall of Constanenople and Byzantium by the Ottoman.
Middle East was more advanced than any other region in the world, the Ottoman never developed anything.
Tell what did the Ottoman invented during their rule to the Middle East.
阿联酋
这是一个不学无术的人的回答。
中东比谁落后？文艺复兴的原因之一是奥斯曼帝国攻陷君士坦丁堡灭亡拜占庭。
中东比世界上任何其他地区都先进，奥斯曼帝国从未发展过任何东西。
你讲一讲有什么东西是在奥斯曼帝国统治中东期间发明的。
When the roman empire fell, the most advanced and richest provinces were almost all in the east and when the muslim arabs conquered these provinces (Egypt, Syria, Palestine) they were still incredibly advanced compared to Germany or France which togheter with the conquest of the Sassanid empire triggered what is known as the "islamic golden age".
The seljuk turks then triggered the crusades by relentlessly attacking Anatolia and as a later consequence the mongols then gained the upper hand and could sack Baghdad. Then the turks conquered Constatinople, which triggered the renaissance and then they took monopoly of all eastward trade which made the Europeans seek out their own trade routes and thus starting the European colonialism.
Only then did Europe start getting the upper hand in technology, economics and science as the ottomans stagnated and took the entire middle east down with them.
当罗马帝国衰落时，最先进和最富有的省份几乎都在东部，当穆斯林阿拉伯人征服这些省份（埃及、叙利亚、巴勒斯坦）时，与日耳曼或高卢相比，它们仍然非常先进，这一点加上对萨珊王朝的征服开启了所谓的“伊斯兰黄金时代”。
塞尔柱突厥人随后无情地进攻安纳托利亚，引发了十字军东征，结果蒙古人随后占据了上风，洗劫了巴格达。然后土耳其人征服了君士坦丁堡，引发了文艺复兴，然后他们垄断了所有向东的贸易，迫使欧洲人寻找自己的贸易路线，从而开始了欧洲殖民主义。
直到那时，欧洲才开始在技术、经济和科学方面占据上风，全都因为奥斯曼帝国停滞不前并拖垮了整个中东。
Iraq
When British troops went to Iraq, they’d see people throwing tomatoes at each other, those genius advanced Islamic Arabs were so smart that they didn’t know that tomatoes were food
伊拉克
英国军队去伊拉克的时候，他们看到人们互相扔西红柿，那些天才的先进的伊斯兰阿拉伯人实在是太聪明了，完全不知道西红柿是食物
Türkiye
This is a response of someone who never read a history book in their life.
Projecting much?
The middle east were backward compared to who?
To Europe what else?
One of the reasons for the Renaissance was the fall of Constanenople and Byzantium by the Ottoman.
Renaissance started years before the fall of Constantinople. Yòu are the one who don't know shit.
土耳其
“这是一个不学无术的人的回答。”
自我介绍？
“中东地区和谁比起来很落后？”
欧洲呗还有谁。
“文艺复兴的原因之一是奥斯曼帝国攻陷君士坦丁堡灭亡拜占庭。”
文艺复兴是在君士坦丁堡沦陷前几年开始的。你才是那个不学无术的人。
Ah yes because Mamluks were just sooooo advanced. Or the Nejd Wahabis and Safavids or Qajars were just super advanced states right?
You are just coping. You guys are backwards shit holes because of your own failures. But rather than accepting that blaming everything on someone else is easier.
Tell what did the Ottoman invented during their rule to the Middle East.
Ottomans only become dominant in Middle East around 16th century. Pray tell what were these so called super advanced Middle Eastern nations were doing in the 15th century? Where were those super scientificly advanced Middle Eastern nations in 14th, 15th or 16th centuries?
You guys are shitholes because of your own failures.
“中东比世界上任何其他地区都更先进”
啊，是的，因为马穆鲁克人是如此的先进。或者内志和萨法维王朝或恺加王朝都是些超级先进的国家，对吗？
你只不过是在自慰。你们是因为自己的失败而成为落后的粪坑。但是，与其接受这点不如把一切都归咎于别人更容易。
“你讲一讲有什么东西是在奥斯曼帝国统治中东期间发明的。”
奥斯曼帝国在 16 世纪左右才在中东占据主导地位。请问这些所谓的超级先进的中东国家在 15 世纪都在做什么？ 14、15 或 16 世纪那些科学超级发达的中东国家在哪里？
你们成为粪坑都是因为自己的失败。
During the middle ages Europe was the most backward place in the world
You Turks should stop glorifying Europeans
中世纪欧洲是世界上最落后的地方
你们土耳其人应该停止美化欧洲人
Türkiye
During the middle ages Europe was the most backward place in the world
Islamist propaganda and exaggeration. Europe in the middle ages wasn't some sort of perfect place by any means but it was definitely far from being the most backward place in the world.
“中世纪欧洲是世界上最落后的地方”
伊斯兰主义的宣传和夸大其词。中世纪的欧洲当然不是什么完美的地方，但它绝对不是世界上最落后的地方。
Algeria
Islamist propaganda ? You mean how Europeans did not even have a proper sewer system ? How muslims were translating greeks and roman texts while the catholic church was too busy sacking their own cities ? One thing you turks need to learn is that no matter how hard you try to imitate and suck up to Europe they will never look to you as equals
阿尔及利亚
伊斯兰主义的宣传？你是说那些连一个完善的下水道系统都搞不出来的欧洲人？那些在穆斯林翻译希腊语和罗马语文本时忙于洗劫自己的城市的天主教会？你们土耳其人需要学习的一件事是，无论你们多么努力地模仿和奉承欧洲，他们都永远不会平等地看待你们。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Yes it was
A Muslim historian had visited Europe once he praised the land for how good and green it was
and he hated the people there everyone was so dirty no one changed their clothes until they turn into rags and fall , and everyone was always drunk because they drunk wine instead of water
Also the catholic church had banned taking baths because it was a heresy
Europe was a really divided and a violent place and it not some propaganda this is literally just a simple fact
“但它绝对不是世界上最落后的地方。”
它是。
一位穆斯林历史学家曾访问过欧洲，他称赞这片土地是多么美好和绿色
但他讨厌那里的人，每个人都脏兮兮的，直到身上的衣服变成破布飘落之前，没有人换过衣服，每个人总是醉醺醺的，因为他们喝的是酒而不是水。
天主教堂也禁止洗澡，因为这是异端行为
欧洲是一个非常分裂和暴力的地方，这不是宣传，这实际上只是一个简单的事实
Türkiye
Good luck with drinking water at the times that antibiotics weren't invented yet :). Alcohol might have save a few millions back in those day.
土耳其
在抗生素还没有发明的时候祝你喝水好运 :)。那时酒精可能会拯救几百万人。
Then how did the arabs live
I know the education system in Turkey is bad but seriously it too much
那么阿拉伯人是怎么活下来的
我知道土耳其的教育体系很糟糕，但没想到这么糟糕
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
United Arab Emirates
Yes europ was more advanced at the time so they called that period the Dark Ages.
The Turks are wimp for the European, while the European hate them.
“你们成为粪坑都是因为自己的失败。”
是的，当时欧洲太先进了，以至于他们称那个时期为黑暗时代。
土耳其人是欧洲人的贱婢，虽然欧洲人很讨厌他们。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Türkiye
Inferiority complex much?
土耳其
你也太自卑了吧？
Morocco
Bro modern turkey is poorer than all gulf states, ironic how you call them shitholes, while you are eaten by crazy inflation and your people migrate to work there .
You pust be a delusional turkish nationalist, wake up from you dreams, you arr no superpower , you economy is miserable
兄弟，现代土耳其比所有海湾国家都穷，讽刺的是你一边称他们为粪坑，一边却被自己国家疯狂的通货膨胀吞噬，你们的人民也正迁移到那里（海湾国家）工作。
你一定是一个妄想的土耳其民族主义者，从你的梦想中醒来，你不是超级大国，你的经济很悲惨
Türkiye
I was talking about countries like Iraq, Syria, Egypt etc. rather than Gulf.
Also don't flatter yourself too much. Literally no one here would pick Gulf as designation to emigrate when Germany exists.
I never said we are a superpower amd yes our economy is miserable because of Islamists.
I think the one who needs to wake up from the nationalist dreams is you. Stop blaming Ottomans for your backwardness. You guys(as in people of this region not specifically you) are shitholes because of your own failures not because of us.
土耳其
我说的是伊拉克、叙利亚、埃及等国家，而不是海湾国家。
而且也不要太自以为是了。从字面上看，只要德国还在，这里没有人会选择海湾作为移民目的地。
我从来没有说过我们是超级大国，是的，我们的经济正是因为伊斯兰主义者才变得悲惨。
我认为需要从民族主义梦中醒来的人是你。不要再因为你的落后而责怪奥斯曼人了。你们这些人（泛指这个地区的人，不是特指你）变成这样是因为你们自己的失败而不是因为我们的失败。
Morocco
What a good day to be Moroccan
摩洛哥
成为摩洛哥人很爽（不在奥斯曼版图内）
Probably delayed the Middle East from getting colonized by Europeans by at least a century.
可能使中东被欧洲人殖民至少推迟了一个世纪。
And prevented another crusade for around 4 centuries. Their collapse permit this modern crusade we see today, different time but same sh*t.
并阻止了大约 4 个世纪内的另一次十字军东征。他们的垮台让我们今天看到的这场现代十字军东征成为可能，时间不同但内在还是那玩意儿。
United Arab Emirates
No change here, the middle east just swiped from Ottoman colonization to European colonization.
这里没有变化，中东只是从奥斯曼帝国的殖民地滑向欧洲的殖民地。
Ottomans integrated middle east as core provinces compare to Europeans who merely occupied the place without granting the right as a citizen. It's honestly odd to see a comparison between the two.
奥斯曼帝国将中东整合为核心省份，而欧洲人只是占领了该地区而没有授予公民权利。看到两者之间的比较真的很奇怪。
Pakistan
Then why was their development so neglected?
巴基斯坦
那么为什么他们的发展如此被忽视呢？
Türkiye
You think core turkish lands were developed? Nowhere was developed except for Istanbul.
土耳其
你以为土耳其的核心区域被开发了吗？除了伊斯坦布尔，没有其他地方被开发。
in 1910's Baghdad is far more developed than all Anotolian cities except İstanbul
在 1910 年代，巴格达比伊斯坦布尔以外的所有安纳托利亚城市都发达得多
The Ottomans are Europeans.
奥斯曼人是欧洲人。
Türkiye
They are freaking Turkic tribes from Central Asia. Its a damn basic fact.
土耳其
我们是来自中亚的突厥部落。这是一个该死的基本事实。
As a proud Byzantine patriot, so are the Bulgarians and the Hungarians who are occupying historic Roman lands.
Long live Rome!!
作为一个自豪的拜占庭爱国者，保加利亚人和匈牙利人也是如此，他们正在占领历史上的罗马土地。
罗马万岁！!
Türkiye
So if we recreate Rome are we allowed stay or do we have to leave?
土耳其
那么，如果我们重建罗马，我们可以留下来还是必须离开？
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Definitely stay, we need warriors to expand into our lost provinces of Carthage and Trebizond.
必须要留下来，我们需要战士来扩张到我们失落的迦太基和特拉比松省份。
Iraq
It literally isn’t, the ottomans were straight up White Greeks who were larping as turkic people and became Muslim, ESPECIALLY the young Turks
伊拉克
事实上不是，奥斯曼人是正宗的希腊人白人，他们像突厥人一样混蛋，后来成为穆斯林，尤其是年轻的土耳其人
Türkiye
Halil Inalcik who is perhaps the most educated Turkish scholar of this century refutes this claim in his book "The Ottoman Empire: Classical Age 1300-1600" in literally the 2nd damn page by calling it "groundless speculation".
土耳其
哈利尔因纳尔西克可能是本世纪受教育程度最高的土耳其学者，他在他的书“奥斯曼帝国：古典时代 1300-1600”中驳斥了这一说法，在第二页就称其为“毫无根据的猜测”。
Iraq
If all western Turks took a dna test there would be very few that would be less than 30% Greek and Balkan
伊拉克
如果所有西突厥人都接受DNA测试，那么最多只有30%的人不是希腊和巴尔干血统
Pakistan
kinda cringe ngl. they simper over balkans so much that everywhere else suffered, even anatolia. they also were so slow to advance technologically compared to everywhere else in the world that you could attribute the backwardness of the modern middle east to them. for example, in 1914 the entire ottoman empire had around 6,000 km of railway while a small country like france had 60,000 km
巴基斯坦
说实话有点烂。他们在巴尔干半岛上如此折腾，以至于帝国其他地方都受到影响，甚至安纳托利亚。与世界上其他任何地方相比，他们的技术进步也非常缓慢，以至于你可以将现代中东的落后归咎于他们。例如，在 1914 年，整个奥斯曼帝国拥有大约 6,000 公里的铁路，而像法国这样的小国都有 60,000 公里
Türkiye
A small country like France, yeah right France having colonies all over Africa and being the most powerful state after Russia and Britain is really small.
What advancements were there not it Anatolia? It was quite on par with the rest of the Empire. There were only five notable countries with railways, and given how all of Europe was in disaster and the Ottomans were quite stable up until the 1600s goes to show how good of a government they were. It was perhaps after the 1700s that they were no longer an international power, and it was truly in the 1800s, after the French invasion, that the Empire shattered. Despite that, it went on to last 123 years more! Something which we might not be able to say about Pakistan.
土耳其
“像法国这样的小国”，你说得对，但是法国在整个非洲都有殖民地，是仅次于俄罗斯和英国的最强大的国家，真的很小。
安纳托利亚没有什么进步？它与帝国的其他地区相差无几。只有五个著名的国家拥有铁路，考虑到整个欧洲都处于灾难之中，而奥斯曼帝国在 1600 年代之前相当稳定，这表明他们的政府是多么的好。也许是在 1700 年代之后，他们才不再是国际大国，而真正的瓦解是在 1800 年代，在法国入侵之后。尽管如此，它又持续了 123 年！而关于巴基斯坦，我们可能无法说些什么。
Pakistan
don't take it so personally my friend :D the figure I gave for france was for the european departments btw. also, you demonstrated exactly my point when you said that the empire's power declined in the 1700-1800s which is the consequential part. the ottomans were stagnating when the rest of europe was undergoing an industrial revolution, and while the technology and nature of warfare was changing. by the time reforms were attempted the gap between them and the contemporary powers was too large.
also, you of all people should know that ottoman anatolia was highly illiterate, rural, and neglected compared to balkan provinces. it was your own ataturk that wanted to change this
unfortunately, the last century or so of ottoman history is largely full of stagnation and embarrassing military defeats
巴基斯坦
不要太情绪化，我的朋友 :D 我给法国的数字是欧洲部分的数字。另外，当你说帝国的力量在1700-1800年代下降时，你正好证明了我的观点，这是重要的部分。当欧洲其他地区正在经历工业革命，并且技术和战争性质正在发生变化时，奥斯曼人却停滞不前。
另外，你应该知道，奥斯曼帝国的安纳托利亚与巴尔干各省相比，文盲率很高，又是农村，而且被忽视。是你自己的阿塔图尔克想改变这种状况
不幸的是，奥斯曼帝国过去一个多世纪的历史基本上充满了停滞不前和令人尴尬的军事失利
Türkiye
you could attribute the backwardness of the modern middle east to them
No you can't. An entire century passed since the collapse of the Ottomans that's more than enough time to modernize. I can list you several countries that managed to modernize in way less time. Modern Middle East is backwards because of their own incompetent leaders.
“以至于你可以将现代中东的落后归咎于他们。”
不，你不能。自奥斯曼帝国崩溃以来已经过去了整整一个世纪，这段时间足以实现现代化。我可以列出几个在更短时间内实现现代化的国家。现代中东由于其无能的领导人而落后。
Correct.
The Khaleej modernized and is doing better than ever.
Iraq modernized and was only brought down by the United States.
Syria and Lebanon both had golden ages before the internal fighting.
Even the Yemen had a jump in economic growth after Ottoman rule.
没错。
海湾地区进行了现代化改造，并且比以往任何时候都做得更好。
伊拉克实现了现代化，只是被美国搞垮了。
叙利亚和黎巴嫩在内战之前都拥有黄金时代。
甚至也门也在后奥斯曼帝国时期实现了经济增长。
Türkiye
So you agree that the current backwardness of the Middle East is not the fault of Ottomans.
所以你同意中东目前的落后不是奥斯曼帝国的错。
Some is and some isn't.
For example the destruction of the Yemen's coffee industry is 100% the fault of the Ottoman Empire.
The collapse of modern Iraq is 0% the fault of the Ottoman Empire.
有些是，有些不是。
例如，也门咖啡业的破坏 100% 是奥斯曼帝国的错。
现代伊拉克的崩溃 0% 是奥斯曼帝国的错。
Türkiye
Most intelligent and knowledgeable Paki lol. Ottomans were technologically more advanced than any other state between 15th to mid 17th Century. The Ottoman Empire was in a period of rise for about 350 years from 1300 to 1650s. Even if it entered a period of decline after the 1700s, it still managed to be one of the strongest states for about 100 years. There is not even an empire in your dirty history that can be compared to Ottomans. Even Mughals were Persianised Turko-Mongols lol
1914 the entire ottoman empire had around 6,000 km of railway while a small country like france had 60,000 km
And you have the worst takes ever dude. Ottomans were already fucked up at that time. Why don't you talk about the golden age of the Ottomans?
土耳其
最聪明和知识渊博的巴基斯坦人哈哈。在 15 世纪至 17 世纪中期，奥斯曼帝国在技术上比任何其他国家都先进。从1300年到1650年代，奥斯曼帝国处于大约350年的崛起时期。即使在1700年代后进入衰落期，它仍然是大约100年来最强大的国家之一。在你们肮脏的历史上，甚至没有一个帝国可以与奥斯曼帝国相提并论。甚至莫卧儿人也是波斯化的突厥-蒙古人，笑。
“1914 年整个奥斯曼帝国有大约 6,000 公里的铁路，而像法国这样的小国只有 60,000 公里。”
兄弟，类比不是这么比的。奥斯曼人那时候已经完蛋了。为什么不说说奥斯曼帝国的黄金时代？
Bangladesh
Lasted too long
孟加拉国
（奥斯曼帝国）持续时间太长
Türkiye
I respect early Ottomans but wish it died earlier. They wasted all the wealth of Anatolian citizens on Balkans, and eventually lost the territory. Scumbags didnt even invest on a pebble on Anatolian land.
土耳其
我尊重早期的奥斯曼帝国，但希望它早点死去。他们把安纳托利亚公民的所有财富都浪费在了巴尔干半岛上，最终失去了所有领土。这些王八蛋甚至不投资安纳托利亚土地上的一颗鹅卵石。
Egypt
Why they were so simp towards the Balkans??
为什么他们对巴尔干半岛如此执着？
Türkiye
They legit thought they were East Roman Empire.
他们认为他们是东罗马帝国的法理继承人。
Kuwait
Because the Ottoman since it is creation only wanted the bulkan, they didn’t ask for the rest but had to take it
科威特
因为奥斯曼帝国自创建以来只想要巴尔干，他们对其它地方并不强求却不得不接手
Egypt
Great empire but not so great because of some stupid decisions that the late Caliphs made and the awful amount of betrayal that happened.
伟大的帝国，但由于已故哈里发做出的一些愚蠢决定以及发生的大量背叛而没有那么伟大。
Türkiye
We should've sold the territories in the Levant to Brits, French, Zionists or whoever was interested. We were going to lose them either way at least by selling them we would've made some profit and that way we might've hold more of the empire together.
土耳其
我们应该把黎凡特的领土卖给英国人、法国人、犹太复国主义者或任何感兴趣的人。反正无论如何我们都会失去它们，至少通过出售它们我们可以获得一些利润，这样我们就可以将更多的帝国领土抓牢。
Its not yours to sell. Even if you were ruling, your empire was so decentralized, we were better off without you. Zero progress in your era. You were focusing on the balkans which you then lost.
它不是你的你怎么卖。即使你在统治，你的帝国也如此分散，没有你我们会过得更好。你们统治的时代零进步。你们只专注于你们后来失去的巴尔干半岛。
Türkiye
Its not yours to sell.
Not anymore that is. We could've do it back then and I really wish we did.
Mistakes were made.
we were better off without you
Agreed. That feeling is mutual. We are better off without you guys too.
“它不是你的你怎么卖。”
现在不是了，但是当时可以，我真希望当时我们这么干了。
（没这么干）是一个错误
“没有你我们会过得更好”
同意。这种感觉是相互的。没有你们，我们也会过得更好。
Yep we are enjoying our oil wealth alone now, no need to share it directly with you, although you are still benefiting from countries with strong economies in the middle east like qatar, saudi and UAE. Some of our countries are way much better to live in than Turkey tbh. Would choose to live in qatar anyday over turkey. Too bad countries like Iraq could have been even better but geopolitics and foreign intervention + asshole leaders ruined it.
I don’t think you were able to sell anything even if you were ruling. People you know, revolt. You were ruling us because we had a contract, not because you owned us. I just sometimes wish Mohammad ali pasha of egypt could have brought the rule of your crumbling empire to an end, was it not for the english intervention, we would have had stronger empire replace a weaker one, just like what used to happen before. Strong replace weak rather than keep the weak alive on life lines.
是的，我们现在正在独自享受我们的石油财富，无需直接与你们分享，尽管你们仍然受益于中东经济强劲的国家，如卡塔尔、沙特和阿联酋。我们的一些国家比土耳其好得多。无论多少次我都会选择住在卡塔尔而不是土耳其。像伊拉克这样的糟糕国家本来可以更好，但地缘政治和外国干预+混蛋领导人毁了它。
我认为即使你们在统治这些地方的时候也无法出售任何东西。你知道的，这里的人充满反抗精神。你统治我们是因为我们有合同，而不是因为你拥有我们。有时我真希望埃及的穆罕默德·阿里·帕夏能结束你们摇摇欲坠的帝国的统治，如果不是因为英国的干预，我们就会有一个更强大的（泛阿拉伯）帝国取代衰落的帝国，就像以前发生的那样。强者取代弱者，而不是让弱者苟延残喘。
As a French I would like to thank the Ottoman empire, without their attack on Vienna the Croissant as we know it today won't be the same, as well as the continental breakfast. For those who don't know the Croissant was straight when it was created, the shape we know today comes from Vienna siège by the Ottoman, and the modern shape was made to make fun of the Ottoman empire. And then it was mass produced in France every morning since.
作为法国人，我要感谢奥斯曼帝国，如果没有他们对维也纳的攻击，我们今天所知道的羊角面包和欧陆式早餐就不会是现在这样的。跟那些不了解的人说一下，羊角面包在创建时是直的，我们今天所知道的形状来自奥斯曼帝国对维也纳围城，现代这个形状是为了取笑奥斯曼帝国而制作的。从那以后，它每天早上都在法国大量生产。