印度人如何看待他们的国家与俄罗斯的关系？（上）What do Indians think about their country''s relationship with Russia?
2023-03-16 兰陵笑笑生 6807 0 1 收藏 纠错&举报
What do Indians think about their country's relationship with Russia?
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This relationship is nothing new between the West and Russia but obviously over the last year it has been tense.
As an outsider, I was wondering what Indians generally think of their government's decision to try and maintain friendly relations with both sides and not distance itself from Russia as most of the western world has.
Also If I may ask a purely hypothetical question:
If an ultimatium was given and India HAD to choose, do you think it would side with the likes of Russia and China et al or with what are commonly referred to as the western powers?
Personally, i see India-Russia and India-West relationship as two different entities, has nothing much to do with each other. And this is most likely the official view of india as well. USA has a policy called CAATSA by which they can force any sovereign country to stop dealing with another country that they deem a threat to "murica". Well india also has an unofficial policy called SMMTBMD("Saste Me Mile To Baste Me Daalo") ( when you get it cheap buy sackful of it).
India imports 85% of its oil from outside and Iran had been our reliable supplier. Then America came along waving their CAATSA privilege card and requested ordered india to stop buying Iranian oil. That really pissed off india, more so because they can't buy from Venezuela, another country that US has trouble with, as well. Sanctioning Venezuela haven't yielded any result anyway but there's no option since the order came from Big Brother. This constant shoving around is what pushed india, to my understanding, to stomp its feet down and say that's enough and go ahead with SMMTBMD.
All these explanation of age old friendship between the two is only relevant on social media. Doesn't hold much credence in reality. India is also a major partner of INSTC, the corridor to bypass western sanctions on Russia and Iran. It's a decade old commitment, not that india had planned to help alleviate sanction hit countries. It's pure business. India is just looking for itself. Not to be pushed around by any side. Not even Russia.
Nah, US has been ok with India importing Russian oil. If they had used the card like they did with Iran, India would have faced sanctions they can ill-afford and would have backed off from Russian imports in a matter of days like India had to with Iran.
China continued their imports with Iran and won some major infrastructure projects and basically elbowed India out of their special diplomatic space in Iranian hearts while the port project to rival China's project in Pakistan languishes.
Nah, US has been ok with India importing Russian oil
exactly and the reason for that is west benefits from the cheap oil that India is refining from russian crude. Actually everyone is profiting from this oil business from India/China to US/Europe, its cheap for everyone, everyone except for Putin since the profit margins for the Russian oil industry have shrunk given the discount at which they are selling it to India and China
I don't simp for Russia.
That said, I hate it when the West thinks that we're their lapdogs to come running when they call. They are so self centered that they think we should drop everything because they condescend to grace us with their friendship. Here's something any lurking Westerners needs to hear: we like you. But we will never be allies. It isn't a matter of your smug attitude or of trust, but simply national interest. India will never give up its non-alignment or strategic autonomy. That supercedes any benefit any alliance, with anyone, may bring.
You are unreasonably mad at "the west".
So what? They need us more than we need them. We will deal with them on our terms, not theirs.
we like you. But we will never be allies.
Not your call to make at all.
It's the elected Govt that makes that call. And politicians pursue diplomacy based mostly on personal interest as any politician with everything hanging on the next election results should.
No in matters of foreign policy it trumps even getting elected. During Russia ukraine war, govt consulted with opposition to reach a consensus on our standing. Congress did the same during their era
No in matters of foreign policy it trumps even getting elected.
Politicians are not doing this on personal interest, this decision is taken by diplomats and advisors on foreign policy and is taken with a long term view.
“The west” has consistently supported Pakistan over India for decades. Pakistan military is supported by the US much more than Ukraines. Till recently, India had regular military drills with Russia. Some in our navy speak Russian. Our only aircraft carrier is Russian (Vikrant) Our fastest nuclear warhead carrying missile is made with Russia(Brahmos.
The west has repeatedly sided with and supplied Pakistan with F16s, missiles, tanks, etc. while Russia has historically vetoed in unsc for India. Our best military jet commissioned to go to war is a Sukhoi. We depend entirely on imported oil and gas.
Yea, the US has changed its tune in the last 10-15 years but that doesn’t make a trusted partner. We’ve been through thick and thin with Russia.
> “The west” has consistently supported Pakistan over India for decades.
you seem to have the understanding of a school kid. countries are not supposed to hold grudges when it comes to diplomacy, the US has long pivoted away from Pakistan, there relations were the strongest during the 70s but now there isn't much left. US knows Pak is closer to China and more dependent on it.
India needs to do the same. Russia is not going to help out India in case of a conflict with China since Putin is too dependent on China, China being the biggest consumer of Russian natural resources. The country you are thinking of was the USSR that came in support of India during the 71 war to fend off the American navy. Russia is not the USSR. Putin's biggest ally and India's biggest enemy is China.
> Till recently, India had regular military drills with Russia.
India did the same with the US, Japan, etc.
> Our only aircraft carrier is Russian (Vikrant)
Wrong we have 2 active carriers Vikramaditya (this was the Russian built carrier) and Vikrant which is an indigenous aircraft carrier
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Sukhois are literally ancient tech that don't match up to fifth generation fighter jets that the west has and even China has developed them now. There is a reason why India wants to buy Rafale instead of anymore Russian planes. Russian planes are not what they used to be, they are sub-par and its difficult to find spare parts for them.
> We depend entirely on imported oil and gas.
which we can easily get from elsewhere, the current increase in Russian oil imports is because of it being dirt cheap, if we want oil we can get it from Iran, Africa, etc (from where we still import it)
> We’ve been through thick and thin with Russia.
again you are confusing the USSR with Putin's Russia. Putin is not gonna help India when it comes to China. Period. Your opinion seems to be based on nostalgia and sentimentality, its not pragmatic.
Wow! How does one get so arrogant and so wrong in one go. Holding grudges? Indian Reddit sub keeps on giving.
Mate, afaik Vikramaditya is not yet commissioned as active. Ditto with Rafale. Could be wrong but these things take a long time to get commissioned and even longer to be battle ready with a fully functioning team that can service it and handle logistics.
Sukhoi MKIs are very very very capable Jets for which Indian public sector (HAL) can readily provide parts service and maintenance. Not so for Rafale. May he Reliance defence can service rafales, don’t know. The tech transfer is very much ongoing.
Again, we have Rafales but I don’t think they have already been commissioned as war ready yet. Even if they have, same issues of experience.
It’s not clear yet that the American pivot in Foreign policy towards India will last when push comes to shove. Remember, russia is the only country with a UNSC veto that we can rely on. Not UK, not US, Not China, Not France.
It makes complete sense for us to not piss off Russia. Benefit from cheap gas and oil while we diversify our defence supplies. Also where are you getting oil and gas from? Iran? US? Shale? Qatar? Europe is buying up all non Russian and non Iran oil pushing prices through the roof.
while Russia has historically vetoed in unsc for India.
while no one mention about veto and UNSC when it comes to India & Russia relation, but it could be another important reason. And, NO I am NOT talking about any historical veto, BUT for the future also, India need someone who can veto any UNSC resolution against India.
All I know is that we do not forget those who stood by us when the going got tough.
If not for present day Russia, we would have been stabbed by the Americans. Received massive help to set up industries also.
That doesnt mean that we approve of anything and everything that Russia does.
I feel theres a stronger sense of friendship with Russia than any other country.
India has a horrible relationship with Pakistan which is pretty much an enemy state and China while a huge trading partner has been an ally of Pakistan. So in Asia, we are pretty much surrounded by rivals. While Russia would always choose China over India, we really need an Asian ally to be with us. If Russia allies with Pakistan, we have no Asian support.
So in this geopolitical setup, it makes sense for India to maintain ties with Russia. But obviously it's not like India is severing any relationship with Europe and the west, the balance between all this is the best course of action now.
USSR backed China in 62' war, and after that too (even when they had their own border troubles) that was one of the reason Indian government started building nukes.
Because in a way neither USSR or USA came to aid India during it's china conflict, we wanted more control over our security.
They (Russia) always gave garbage and defunct soviet stuff for our armed forces (look how many of our pilots died), KGB had an extensive control over media and politicians (CIA isn't too behind either).
India pulled out of su-57 program, because it is a garbage plan which claims to be 5th gen.
There is a reason why we are neutral, we are only loyal to ourselves not to any other nation. We don't really have a strong ally.
This is incorrect. India was helped by the USSR, *not* by Russia. Ukraine should inherit as much of that goodwill as Russia should, given that both were parts of the USSR.
Further, before the war, Ukraine had been visa free for Indian tourists and quite welcoming to Indian students.
Getting any kind of Russian visa was a nightmare on the other hand.
I agree with this. Putin is no friend of India, just an on-off fwb. Putin was once ready to sell tanks to Pakistan too.
Putin was once ready to sell tanks to Pakistan too.
Russia pledges to provide more weapons to Pakistan despite unease from the Indian side
Plenty of sales have been made to Pakistan. I rather would blame the extremely weak and incompetent Indian diplomatic corp which gets bitchslapped by not just world powers like Russia but tiny fictional toddler nations like Kailasa.
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People who are pro-Russia at this point, are using increasingly crazy mental gymnastics to justify their position. And downvote anyone who isn't an equally rabid fanatic of fascist regimes.
Please downvote me for being against an unnecessary and cruel war.
They also conveniently forget the faulty second hand spares bought for our armed forces from Russia, the deals for which have been marred by corruption and ultimately taken the lives of many Indian pilots. Russia doesn't give two shits about us.
Honestly for so many of us it's become more about feeling pride in the 'fuck you' to the West rather than being a true pacifist.
Average social media influenced
If not for present day Russia, we would have been stabbed by the Americans.
you are thinking of the USSR, Putin's Russia isn't really India's best friend.
And not US. See what US is doing to Ukraine
where have I implied that the US is? why did you feel the need to say that? and whatever is happening in Ukraine is because of Russia, US and EU could have prevented much of the damage and escalation if they had provided them with weapons earlier.
See the bigger picture and the truth. Geopolitics is not black and white. Everything is not because of Russia. US is bloodletting Ukraine, letting the war go on to bring down Russia to the worst. To cripple it down. They are elongating the war on the pretext of asking for 'unconditional' peace.
Read about the March 2022 Ukraine-Russia peace talks which were stopped by US and EU. And now Ukraine can't talk on its own without US's approval.
Russia itself is crippling its economy, they have made serious territorial gains in Ukraine even with just crimea under them in 2014 they had made a substantial gain. Putin can simply end the war and keep the territories he has gained but he is too much of an egomaniac to do that.
Just because Russia being weaker happens to work for the US doesn't mean that they are elongating the war. US has had a big history of fighting and elongating absolutely pointless wars but this one isn't it. Its all Putin. He did the same in Georgia.
> Read about the March 2022 Ukraine-Russia peace talks which were stopped by US and EU.
i have read about it, again it had nothing to do with the US, there is simply a report of a US official saying that "Putin does not seem to be ready for a ceasefire", you are just using an article headline to extrapolate that the US is dictating terms in this war when its between Russia and Ukraine
> And now Ukraine can't talk on its own without US's approval.
Horseshit. Read about the about the Kharkiv countrer-offensive that the Ukrainians launched in Sept without informing the US and took back most of the territories from Russians. If Ukraine really couldn't do anything without the US approval they wouldn't launch their biggest surprise attack without informing the Americans first.
Stop consuming conspiracy theories and start reading news kozo.
俄罗斯自己在削弱自己的经济，他们在乌克兰取得了重大的领土收益，即使在 2014 年只有克里米亚在他们的统治下，他们也取得了可观的收益。普京可以简单地结束战争，保留他所获得的领土，但他太自大了，不会这样做。
> 了解 2022 年 3 月被美国和欧盟叫停的乌克兰-俄罗斯和平谈判。
胡说。阅读有关乌克兰人于 9 月在未通知美国的情况下发动的哈尔科夫反攻并从俄罗斯人手中夺回大部分领土的消息。如果乌克兰真的在没有美国批准的情况下无能为力，他们就不会在没有先通知美国人的情况下发动他们最大规模的突然袭击。
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Hahahaha. You are so entrenched in the narrative that you consider your thoughts news. Putin can simply end the war and keep the territories?! Are you reading The Naive Times regularly or not? I think you are not. Any peace negotiations between them has US and EU as the deciders. They want unconditional withdrawal of Russian troops. Is this not covered in the news? Lol.
And assuming that the article you got on the internet is the basis of my facts is really impressive.
You don't even know that bloodletting is a concept in international relations and that is what happening right now in Ukraine. Reading helps sometimes.