阻止流浪者的长椅其实是为轮椅使用者设计的吗？同情者愤怒了

Frank Douglas
You’re right - imagining the space for the wheelchair on the left or right end makes it very clear that the bench was designed to prevent lying down. Thank you!

你是对的——想象一下轮椅在左边或右边的空间，很明显，这条长凳是为了防止躺下而设计的。谢谢你！

Mike Bell to Frank Douglas
Exactly: the wheelchair user could be at either end, or facing his friends. This is how we do things with my friend in a wheelchair. It has never been a problem.

没错：轮椅使用者可以坐在长椅的两端，也可以面对着他的朋友。这就是我们和我那个坐轮椅的朋友相处的方式。这从来都不是问题。

Carla Prascher to Frank Douglas
Just thinking out loud here….you believe that installing seating with armrests is meant to discourage the homeless from sleeping on it? I appreciate armrests. They make a seat more comfortable and help to establish personal space. Why do some people presume that there’s nefarious intent behind an upgrade to a plain bench?

这只是我的想法…您认为安装带扶手的座椅是为了阻止无家可归者睡在上面吗？我很欣赏扶手。它们使座椅更舒适，并有助于建立个人空间。为什么有些人认为升级到普通长椅的背后有邪恶的意图？
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

Richard Brown to Carla Prascher
Those aren't arm rests, you'd have to be crouched in a very awkward manner for your arms to reach that low

那不是扶手，你必须以一种非常尴尬的方式蹲着才能让你的手臂够到那么低

Yveline to Carla Prascher
Why do some people presume that there’s nefarious intent behind an upgrade to a plain bench?
Because there is.
There's even a name for it “Hostile Architecture" or “Anti-Homeless Measures". It's a common part of city planning now I'm afraid, this isn't just cynicism — part of the meeting that helped design the bench will have included a discussion on how to make sure it wasn't used for rough sleepers. It will have been part of the designer's brief.

为什么有些人认为升级到普通长椅的背后有邪恶的意图?
因为真的有。
它甚至有一个名字叫“敌对建筑”或“反无家可归措施”。恐怕现在这是城市规划的一个常见部分，这不仅仅是愤世嫉俗——一些会议帮助设计长椅，包括讨论如何确保它不被用于粗俗的睡眠者。这将是设计师简介的一部分。

Art Wilkinson to Frank Douglas
Good design. Public benches are for normal people to sit on, not for bums to sleep on.

好的设计。公共长椅是给正常人坐的，不是给流浪汉睡的。

Wayne Fiddler
This drives me nuts, theres already a space for a wheelchair user at the bench.
they're already in a chair.

这让我抓狂，长椅上已经有轮椅使用者的空间了。
他们已经坐在椅子上了。

Miika Kylander
I don’t think preventing sleeping on public benches is an issue. The fact someone has to sleep on public benches is.

我不认为禁止在公共长椅上睡觉是个问题。事实是有人不得不睡在公共长椅上。

Célia Almeida
I am happy to have homeless excluded from children's parks. They are very frequently drunk or high, they leave trash everywhere, they smell bad, they use curse words, they use up space and moms have to breastfeed sitting on the ground instead of benches and so on.
Signed: someone who volunteered for 12 yrs at a homeless shelter and knows that only 20% of them trully want help.
Ps: but it is a lie to say that that's for wheelchairs. They should just say the truth.

我很高兴把无家可归的人排除在儿童公园之外。他们经常喝醉或嗑药，到处扔垃圾，身上散发着难闻的气味，他们说脏话，他们占用空间，妈妈们不得不坐在地上而不是长凳上哺乳等等。
署名：我是一个在无家可归者收容所做了12年志愿者的人，知道其中只有20%的人真正需要帮助。
Ps：但是说这是为轮椅准备的是谎言。他们应该说真话。

Susan Baker to Célia Almeida
It's true they leave needles all over the childrens parks around the area I live in, even though they have trash bins specifically to put used needles in. They still shit and piss in the street even though the city puts out portable toilets and leave them up year round.

的确，他们在我住的地区的儿童公园里到处都是用过的针头，尽管他们有专门的垃圾桶可以把用过的针头扔进去。他们仍然在街上拉屎撒尿，即使城市里有移动厕所，而且一年四季都没有关闭。

Kerry Peters to Susan Baker
Not all homeless people do I slept rough 20 yrs didn't drink take drugs trust me I understand people who do you at bottom of society but can happen to anyone even u don't judge

不是所有无家可归的人都是这样的，我露宿了20年，不酗酒，不吸毒，相信我，我理解那些处于社会底层的人，任何人都可能遭遇这种事，即使你不这么认为
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

Susan Baker to Kerry Peters
Hey, the homeless in my city do, I witness it everyday on my way to work. I'm definitely judging people that leave used needles in a childrens park, having a drug problem doesn't excuse the individual from being a decent fucking human and disposing their gross drug paraphernalia properly. People still shitting and pissing in the street even while toilets are provided. I feel sorry for the businesses that have to deal with their stores being broken into just to supply some losers drug habit.

嘿，我所在城市的无家可归者就是这样，我每天在上班的路上都能看到。我肯定会批评那些把用过的针头留在儿童公园的人，有毒品问题并不能成为一个体面的人的借口，不能正确地处理他们的恶心的毒品用具。即使有厕所，人们仍然在街上拉屎。我为商家感到遗憾，他们不得不处理他们的商店被闯入只是为了供应一些失败者的毒品习惯。

Mel Lilly to Kerry Peters
I think those may have been different times. Nowadays, most of the people living on the streets are drug addled or crazy or both. Not all, definitely. But a large percentage.

我认为那些可能是不同的时代。如今，大多数流落街头的人都染上了毒瘾或疯了，或两者兼而有之。并非全部。但是比例很大。

Michael McGlothlin to Célia Almeida
I can sympathize with not wanting homeless in an area for children. Not because they are homeless but because they are addicts, mentally ill, etc. But I’m against intentionally making benches difficult to sleep on - both because it seems hateful and because I might want to lay down while my kids play. I wonder what better methods have been found to moderate this problem?
The obvious solution would seem to be a police presence and creating areas specifically to suit homeless people. And shelters not requiring patrons to leave during the day.
And of course better support for helping people deal with mental illness, addictions, etc. Most homeless people I’ve known were homeless because of mental illness. Often mostly just depression. They couldn’t take the stresses of life anymore so they just dropped out. And often became addicts as they tried to escape the pain. It isn’t as simple as curing addictions. We need to help people with their mental illness and pain.

我能理解你不想让无家可归的人住在孩子们的地方。不是因为他们无家可归，而是因为他们是瘾君子、精神病患者等等。但我反对故意让长椅很难睡——因为这看起来很讨厌，也因为我可能想在孩子们玩耍的时候躺下。我想知道有什么更好的方法来缓和这个问题?
显而易见的解决方案似乎是警察的存在，并创建专门适合无家可归者的区域。避难所不要求客户在白天离开。
当然，还有更好的支持，帮助人们应对精神疾病、毒品成瘾等。我认识的大多数无家可归的人都是因为精神疾病而无家可归。通常只是抑郁。他们再也无法承受生活的压力，所以就退学了。在试图逃避痛苦时，他们常常成为了瘾君子。这并不像治疗毒瘾那么简单。我们需要帮助那些有精神疾病和痛苦的人。

Hans Dybkjær to Célia Almeida
It is truly great that you have volunteered to help out for so many years, and saved those who need help to get a normal life again. The world would be a better place if more were like you.
Still, making benches awful is a bad solution. Why not make a space where they would prefer to be, compared to the children’s parks. With no additional requirements, no harassment. Where they can have at least a sliver of dignity. Of course they don’t belong at playgrounds, not even on the street.
“only 20 % of them truly want help”: Want and want … I guess most of the last 80 % are mentally ill and/or drug addicts. Neither group can be expected to do the “right” thing. Helping those requires a vast amount of competent resources. Were one of them my family member (or yours), we could only hope that the public health care and public social authorities could provide at least some help.
The society becomes a poorer and more barbaric place if we reject the mentally ill and addicts as somebody who do not “want” help.

这么多年来，你一直自愿帮助别人，帮助那些需要帮助的人重新过上正常生活，这真是太伟大了。如果有更多像你这样的人，这个世界会更美好。
不过，把长椅做得很糟糕是一个糟糕的解决方案。与儿童公园相比，为什么不创造一个他们更喜欢的空间呢？没有额外的要求，没有骚扰。在那里他们至少还能有一丝尊严。当然，它们不属于操场，甚至不属于街上。
“只有20%的人真正需要帮助”：想想……我猜最后80%的人大多数是精神疾病和/或吸毒成瘾者。这两组人都不能指望做“正确”的事情。帮助这些人需要大量有能力的资源。如果他们是我的家人(或你的家人)，我们只能希望公共卫生和公共社会当局至少能提供一些帮助。
如果我们把精神疾病患者和瘾君子视为不“需要”帮助的人，社会就会变得更贫穷、更野蛮。

Dominique Edwards to Hans Dybkjær
Understanding that the rest may have their reasons for not being able to accept help goes a long way. For instance mental health conditions like schizophrenia are one of the main causes of homelessness. Unfortunately society in most countries does not do enough to support them and even with the new drugs they are not good enough to stop all the symptoms. These people fall through societies cracks. Then get blamed for it. In Australia a lot of people are now homeless just due to the rental crisis we are having. There are literally not enough houses for people. Houses are laying empty by overseas developers and being rented outed as holidays rentals instead. People who need homes have no where to live. Rental prices are sky-rocketing. People are choosing to eat lean in order to pay rent. And buying a house is out of most people's market. With houses now costing so much.

要理解其他人可能有他们无法接受帮助的原因，这是很重要的。例如，精神分裂症等精神健康问题是造成无家可归的主要原因之一。不幸的是，大多数国家的社会没有采取足够的措施来支持他们，即使有了新药，它们也不足以消除所有的症状。这些人从社会的裂缝中掉了出来。然后被指责。在澳大利亚，由于目前的租房危机，很多人现在无家可归。没有足够的房子供人们居住。海外开发商正在空置房屋，并将其作为假日出租。需要家的人没有地方住。租金飞涨。人们为了付房租而选择吃缺乏脂肪的肉。而买房不是大多数人的需求。现在房价却这么贵。

Jarkko Holkkunen
Imagine trying to enjoy a nice park with drugged-up hobos sleeping and vomiting on the benches.

想象一下，在一个美好的公园里，吸毒的流浪汉在长椅上睡觉和呕吐。

Sam I Am to Jarkko Holkkunen
I live in NYC and have actually experienced this. It's really not a big deal. You don't like the sensory perception you have of someone? Move to another bench. Simple
Your sense of disgust is tuned too high. You're effete.

我住在纽约，亲身经历过这个。这真的不是什么大事。你不喜欢你对某人的感觉？转移到另一张长椅上。很简单
你的厌恶感调得太高了。你是消极的。

Topkek
I find it funny that most of you call it a disgrace yet I bet few if any of you do anything to help the homeless, and probably ignore them in the street

我觉得很有趣的是，你们大多数人认为这是一种耻辱，但我敢打赌，你们中几乎没有人会去帮助无家可归的人，而且很可能在街上对他们视而不见

Safetyspoon to Topkek
Meh. I know the Russian invasion of Ukraine is a disgrace, I know Singaporean drug laws are a disgrace, and I know that the Saudi Arabian war in Yemen is a disgrace, and — guess what — I'm doing absolutely nothing about any of it.
Does that mean I’m a hypocrite if I state that these things are a disgrace? Should everyone just shut the fuck up about everything they are not directly doing anything about?
That's basically tantamount to silent assent. It's a bullshit argument.
I imagine most of the people who disapprove of hostile architecture and other such things, at least vote for people who don't advocate it, at the municipal, regional, state or federal level.
The assertion that you should be an activist in order to have an opinion about anything is risible.

嗯。我知道俄罗斯入侵乌克兰是一种耻辱，我知道新加坡的毒品法是一种耻辱，我知道沙特阿拉伯在也门的战争是一种耻辱，而且——你猜怎么着——我对这些事情什么都没做。
如果我说这些事情是可耻的，这是否意味着我是个伪君子?难道每个人都应该对他们没有直接采取行动的事情闭嘴吗?
这基本上等同于沉默的同意。这是一个扯淡的论点。
我想大多数不赞成敌对建筑和其他类似东西的人，至少会在市政、地区、州或联邦层面上投票给不提倡它的人。
要想对任何事情都有自己的看法，就必须成为一个积极分子，这种说法是可笑的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

Shaun Phillips
Community areas are for the community, not for people to set up permanent residence.
When all the benches become filled with people who are homeless, it takes away from the community. Besides, what sympathizers refuse to admit is that many of these homeless people you find in downtown areas prefer it that way because they want their personal freedom to do whatever they want all day long.
They don't want to be bound by rules such as those that might be found at shelters, or if they use any other public services. They don't even want to be bound by the rules that come with having a job. They want to do what they want, when they want, and don't want anyone ever telling them what to do.
Instead, these bench areas become drug infested, crime infested, locations to interfere with the rest of the citizens right to use and enjoy these downtown public spaces.
That's why they put arm rests & other devices into deter people from making downtown benches a permanent home. It's for the betterment of the community, including the homeless people.
If they really are homeless, they should be utilizing public services and shelters that are available to them, not tying up public benches in public downtown spaces to turn into their own private, personal homes.

社区区域是为社区服务的，不是供人们定居的。
当所有的长椅上都坐满了无家可归的人时，这个社区就被占领了。此外，同情者拒绝承认的是，你在市中心发现的许多无家可归的人喜欢这样，因为他们想要他们的个人自由，整天做他们想做的任何事情。
他们不希望受到诸如庇护所或使用其他公共服务的规则的约束。他们甚至不想被工作带来的规则所束缚。他们想在自己想做的时候做自己想做的事，不希望任何人告诉他们该做什么。
相反，这些长椅区域成了毒品和犯罪的温床，干扰了其他市民使用和享受这些市中心公共空间的权利。
这就是为什么他们会安装扶手和其他设备来阻止人们把市中心的长椅当作永久的家。这是为了改善社区，包括无家可归的人。
如果他们真的无家可归，他们应该利用公共服务和庇护所，而不是把市中心公共空间的公共长椅变成自己的私人家园。

Célia Almeida to Shaun Phillips
Exactly.
This “oh poor homeless" crowd is just virtue-signalling for strangers online. I am absolutely sure that they wouldn't want a drunk/high, smelly homeless guy sleeping on their children's Park.

完全正确。
这些“哦，可怜的无家可归者”的人群只是在向网上的陌生人发送虚假的信息。我绝对相信他们不会想让一个喝醉了的，有臭味的流浪汉睡在他们孩子的公园里。

Phil to Shaun Phillips
What a completely narrow minded view.
It's easy to criticise and pass judgement on people when you have not been in their position. Your comment reeks of snobbery and closed mindedness.
There are many psychosocial, medical and mental reasons a person may find themselves without a home. Negative internal thoughts can lead to a person from seeking health, be this depression, guilt, regret, anxiety, etc.
To state that a person should be utilising these things, without any other thought to the reasons why they have not, can not, or feel they should not, is asinine.
Basically, get back in your box and stop worrying that your perfectly manicured parks are made to look untidy because an unfortunate human being is seeking comfort.

多么狭隘的观点啊。
当你没有处在别人的位置上时，你很容易对他们进行批评和判断。你的评论带有势利和狭隘的味道。
一个人无家可归有许多社会心理、医疗和精神方面的原因。消极的内在思想可以导致一个人从寻求健康，这是抑郁，内疚，后悔，焦虑等。
说一个人应该利用这些东西，而不去想为什么他们没有、不能或觉得他们不应该利用这些东西，是愚蠢的。
总之，回到你的盒子里（一种训斥俗语），不要再担心你精心修剪的公园会因为一个不幸的人在寻求安慰而看起来很不整洁。

Shaun Phillips to Phil
You're the one that has a completely narrow-minded view.
Almost every major city that has these type of benches also have services and shelters for the homeless. Like I said, the overwhelming majority who choose to ignore these services do so because they want their independence. They can spend the night in a shelter, but they choose not to.
They want to come and go as they please. They don't want to be bound by anyone's rules.They want to be able to do drugs. They want to be able to do whatever the f*** they want all day long and not have anyone tell them what to do.
The rest of society should not have to deal with that. Public spaces are public spaces. Public spaces are there for the enjoyment of everybody who needs to use downtown areas or working downtown areas. They're not private property for somebody to set up a permanent home

你才是那个观点非常狭隘的人。
几乎每个拥有这种长椅的大城市都为无家可归者提供服务和庇护所。就像我说的，绝大多数选择忽视这些服务的人是因为他们想要独立。他们可以在避难所过夜，但他们选择不这样做。
他们想来就来，想走就走。他们不想被任何人的规则所约束。他们希望能够吸毒。他们希望能够整天做任何他们想做的操蛋的事情，没有人告诉他们该做什么。
社会上的其他人不应该去处理这个问题。公共空间就是公共空间。公共空间是为每个需要使用闹市区或工作闹市区的人提供享受的。它们不是私人财产，不是供人建立永久居所的
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

Christopher Briggs
Why don't you just invite those homeless people to come and lay down on your couch, if you are so concerned about their comfort?

如果你这么关心他们的舒适，为什么不邀请那些无家可归的人来你的沙发上躺下呢?

Charlotte Light
The funny thing is, as a wheelchair user, I will never need to sit on a park bench. Stuff like this is just ridiculous.

有趣的是，作为一个轮椅使用者，我再也不需要坐在公园的长椅上了。这样的事情太荒谬了。

Josh Meredith
Some attitudes towards the homeless sicken me. Yes there are some who are addicts or who are generally bad people but they make up the minority, regardless I only ever offer to buy the homeless some food or a drink if I'm passing and buying lunch anyway.
Some of us don't have families we can rely on, never have. I was homeless, lost, sad and confused at 16 as my last remaining family member that cared passed away just as I was finishing school. Whilst most were getting their first car or going to uni I was left wondering what I had done wrong to have so little and nobody to care. I've learnt the hard way that anything in this life I have to earn for myself, if I can't make rent in back to living on the streets. I do relatively well for myself nowadays living in higher standard than many which I am thankful for but it's always a constant reminder when I see the homeless that I really am not that far detached from their position. One long bout of illness or losing my job without being able to find another relatively quickly and I'm then in their shoes…

对无家可归者的一些态度使我感到恶心。是的，有一些人是瘾君子，或者是坏人，但他们只是少数，不管怎样，我只会在路过并买午餐的时候给无家可归的人买一些食物或饮料。
我们有些人没有可以依靠的家庭，从来没有。16岁那年，我无家可归、迷失、悲伤和困惑，因为我最后一个关心我的家庭成员在我即将毕业时去世了。当大多数人得到他们的第一辆车或上大学时，我在想我做错了什么，拥有这么少，没有人关心。我经历了惨痛的教训，这辈子任何东西都得自己挣，如果我连房租都付不起又要露宿街头的话。我现在过得相对不错，生活水平比很多人都高，我很感激，但当我看到无家可归的人时，我总是不断地提醒自己，我真的没有远离他们的地位。一场旷日持久的疾病，或者失去了工作，却不能很快找到另一份工作，我就会处于他们的处境……