为什么有些人在中国生活了很长时间，却从来没有学过中文？（上）
How do some people live in China for a long time and never learn Chinese ?
译文简介
我刚来到中国，我发现如果不懂中文，想在这里做几乎任何事情都很困难。
正文翻译
How do some people live in China for a long time and never learn Chinese ?
为什么有些人在中国生活了很长时间，却从来没有学过中文？
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I had a cousin who lived in Guangzhou for 5 years and knew aero Chinese and never learned . I'm not sure how people can survive with out knowing Chinese ... Do you have to rely on translation apps and just struggle ?
I'm so lucky that I had tons of college friends in China to guide me . I went to College at UC Irvine in California which has a massive Chinese population and all my roommates were Chinese .
我刚来到中国，我发现如果不懂中文，想在这里做几乎任何事情都很困难。我的朋友们必须一直陪伴着我，不然我没办法生存。安保人员在地铁看到我行李里有一把菜刀就没收了。我不知道为什么，如果我没有我的朋友，安保人员会把我拉到一边。不懂中文几乎不可能在我现在住的地方做任何事情。
我有一个在广州生活了5年的表哥，只会一点中文并且从来没学过。我不确定大家在不懂中文的情况下是如何生存的……是不是必须事事依赖翻译应用程序并且生活得很挣扎？
我很幸运在中国有很多大学朋友指导我。我之前在加利福尼亚州的加州大学尔湾分校上大学，那里有大量的中国人，我所有的室友都是中国人。
My Russian MIL has lived here for 25 years now and doesn’t speak any Chinese. She’s married to a Chinese man now and they communicate in shitty English. I think somehow they made each other’s English worse and even less intelligible. She relies on her husband, my husband and her daughter to do everything that requires Chinese language skills, she is literally the most helpless and incompetent person I have ever met. I compare her lack of Chinese language skills to a disability, since she relies so heavily on other people to do things for her. I don’t understand it and deep down I think it’s laziness and learned helplessness, and I get judgmental about it, but I really should cut her some slack, Chinese is an incredibly difficult language to learn.
我的俄罗斯婆婆在这里住了 25 年了，不会说中文。她现在嫁给了一个中国男人，他们用蹩脚的英语交流。我觉得他们正在以某种方式使彼此的英语变得更糟、更难理解。她靠着她的丈夫、我的丈夫和她的女儿来做任何需要用到中文的事情，她简直是我见过的最无助和无能的人。我把她缺乏中文能力比作残疾，因为她非常依赖别人为她做事。我搞不懂，在我内心深处我认为这是一种懒惰和习惯性依赖，虽然如此，可能我还是得对她放宽一点要求，毕竟中文是一门非常难学的语言。
Your comment gave me the biggest laugh of the day
你的评论让我笑个不停
I’m glad I made you laugh but being around her does not make me laugh. Mostly I just try to keep from rolling my eyes at her extreme helplessness. The other day she went to the supermarket and forgot where she parked her car and my FIL had to drive out there to rescue her. She’s scared to go anywhere by herself. She still can’t find my home from my husband’s workplace, which is just two blocks away. I could go on …
我很高兴让你笑了，但在她身边并没有办法让我笑。大多数情况下，我只能尽量避免对她的极度无助翻白眼。前几天她去了超市，忘了把车停在哪里，我的公公不得不开车去那里救她。她害怕一个人去任何地方。她仍然无法从我丈夫的工作场所找到我的家，虽然两地就隔了两个街区。我还可以继续数下去……
But tbf my Chinese husband's English is amazing and my chinese is good and we have also created some language. Like at first it was Chinglish and now it's dissolved into.... A dumb version of neither language sometimes.
好在我的中国丈夫的英语很棒，我的中文很好，我们也创造了一些语言。一开始它是中式英语，现在它变成了……可以说是这两种语言的愚蠢版本。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Yeah there is no excuse for that my mom moved from china to austria 30 years ago and she managed to learn German just by doing everyday things like groceries, going to the doctor etc. You have to like actively try to not learn it i think
是的，这是没有任何借口的。我妈妈 30 年前从中国搬到了奥地利，她单单是通过做杂货、去看医生等日常事情都逐渐学会了德语。我觉得你必须积极避免去尝试它才能完全学不会一门语言。
I agree with you, I don’t know how she does it. I think some expats here just have a mental block against learning the language. I think language learning also gets significantly more difficult after a certain age. My dad was 19 when he moved to Canada and he speaks English at an almost native level.
我同意你的看法，我不知道她是怎么做到的。我认为这里的一些外籍人士单纯是对学习这门语言有心理障碍。我认为语言学习在一定年龄后也会变得更加困难。我父亲移居加拿大时年仅 19 岁，他现在的英语几乎是母语水平。
So your husband is half Russian/Chinese? Interesting.
所以你丈夫是俄罗斯人/中国人的混血？有趣。
He’s not
他不是
Been here for 9 years and my Chinese is pretty bad. Laziness, that’s how.
在这里待了 9 年了，我的中文还是很栏。懒，这就是为什么。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
This. I’m not absolutely terrible but I’m not great either. And I’ve been here about 6 years. Having said that, I know people a lot worse than me. Especially with Didi, etc, you can easily get away with not speaking much Chinese.
加一。我的中文不是特别地糟糕，但也不是很好。我在这里已经 6 年了。话虽如此，我还认识说得比我差很多的人呢。尤其是打滴滴等的时候，你不用说多少中文就可以轻松过关。
Plus Chinese is probably the most difficult language to learn for speakers who grew up in countries which used solely a Romance or Germanic language. I lived in Italy and learned a phrase using my phone on the way to the restaurant, tried it a few times and the staff there (who recognised me, as I'd been a few times) helped me improve my pronunciation. Recently I was told by an Arabic speaker I have a Saudi accent when using Arabic phrases, which I thought was hilarious because I'd never considered I had one. I've used French in Morocco and north Vietnam, and I'd say my level is slightly above 'survivor'. But Chinese? I've tried really hard when living there and just can't hear it or speak it. Hopefully I will return later this year and try again.
对于在只使用罗曼语或日耳曼语的国家长大的人来说，汉语可能是最难学的语言。我住在意大利，在去餐厅的路上用手机学会了一个短语，试了几次，那里的工作人员（他们认出了我，因为我来过几次）帮助我提高了发音准确度。最近，一位说阿拉伯语的人告诉我，我在使用阿拉伯语短语时有沙特口音，我认为这很有趣，因为我从来没有想过我有这种口音。我在摩洛哥和越南北部用过法语，我会说我的水平略高于“艰难求生”的人。但是中文？住在那里的时候我真的很努力，但就是听不懂也说不出来。希望我今年晚些时候回来再试一次。
I'm not sure I'd put Mandarin above Arabic or Russian on a difficulty scale... But if you've got Arabic phrases and a solid accent with it more power to you.
I certainly found various ethnic minority languages in China harder to learn than Mandarin, but that might have been due to lack of resources.
我不确定我是否会把普通话的难度放在阿拉伯语或俄语之上...但是，如果你已经掌握了阿拉伯语短语，并且有扎实的口音，那你应该更有信心。
我发现中国的各种少数民族语言比普通话更难学，但这可能是由于缺乏资源的原因。
Speaking Mandarin is arguably easier. People get all caught up on the tones, but every accent uses tones in a different way. My tones are AWFUL but people understand my chinese. No one says anything...except my husband's dad
普通话是比较容易说的。大家都只是被音调所困扰，每种口音都会以不同的方式使用音调。我的音调说得很糟糕，但人们能听懂我的中文。没有人对此说什么......除了我丈夫的父亲。
Plus Chinese is probably the most difficult language to learn for speakers who grew up in countries which used solely a Romance or Germanic language.
It's harder to learn, but I've also found that China is a harder place to get around and do things without learning the language. There are plenty of countries I could picture myself living in without learning the local language, but I don't see how people make it work in China.
“对于在只使用罗曼语或日耳曼语的国家长大的人来说，汉语可能是最难学的语言。”
它确实更难学，而且我也发现在不学习语言的情况下，中国是一个更难四处走动和做事的地方。有很多国家我可以想象自己在没有学习当地语言的情况下生活，但我不知道人们如何在这种情况下在中国生活。
OP
Exactly and I think it's because of all the security . I've been to countries where I didn't speak the language and had a great time . You just scan your subway card and go on the subway .you don't really need to talk to anyone and many have kiosks to even buy food . You also need to show ID in China to do almost anything and they rarely ask for it in most other countries
I feel like in china it's hard because of the extra tight security . Like you have to go through security to go on the subway and there is a good chance security might confront you one day . Then you won't know what to say . I left my card for the turnstile at my Chinese apartment complex once . I tried to make gestures with securityand they didn't understand and thought I was an intruder . I tried to communicate with them through an app but they still didn't understand ..I then had to put my friend on the phone to explain to them . Also my apartment complex has electric barbed wire on it's fence .. so no way I can climb it haha. In USA they just let you walk into the complex with no issue .I had the key to my room but not for the one to go through the turnstile ...
没错，我认为这是因为太多的安全检查。我曾经去过一些语言不通的国家，但也能过得很开心。你只需扫描你的地铁卡就可以上地铁了。完全不需要与任何人交谈，有许多便利亭，甚至可以购买食物。在中国做任何事情都需要出示身份证，而在大多数其他国家他们很少要求你出示身份证。
我觉得在中国很难是因为安保特别严格。比如你必须通过安检才能上地铁，而且很有可能某天安检人员会和你对质。那你就完全懵逼了。有一次，我把我小区闸机的卡留在了我公寓楼里。我试图对保安做手势，他们不理解，认为我是一个入侵者。我试着通过一个应用程序与他们沟通，他们还是不明白......然后我不得不让我的朋友打电话向他们解释。另外，我的公寓楼的围栏上有通电的铁丝网......所以我不可能爬上去，哈哈。在美国，他们会毫无问题地让你走进小区。我有我房间的钥匙，只是没有通过闸机的卡。
I've lived here for years and there's exactly one time I've had to speak to anyone at a subway station. I agree you need the language to function but China is so highly automated that I don't really get what you're on about.
我在这里生活很多年了，只有一次，我不得不在地铁站与人对话。我同意你需要语言来使生活更便利，但中国的自动化程度也是非常高的，我不太明白你为什么这么说。
I meet a lot of people who have been here 10+ years and can't speak/read/understand Chinese, for some people it varies. They can get by but that's it but some people don't know many words at all. I also wondered, if they don't have a Chinese partner, how they can do things. On the flip side I taught a Chinese woman in the UK who had lived there 9 years and also couldn't speak English. It always amazed me how she got by.
I have nothing against people who can't speak Chinese but one time I met a guy who lived here for 15 years and couldn't speak a word of Chinese and always corrected his Chinese wife's English. He corrected my husband's English one time and I was so mad about it. So glad I don't see that guy anymore!
我遇到很多在这里呆了10年以上的人，他们不会说/读/懂中文，各人的情况各不相同。有些人觉得这样能过得下去，得过且过，有些人认识一点点字。我也想知道，如果他们没有一个中国伴侣，他们要怎么去做事情。另一方面，我在英国教过一个中国女人，她在那里生活了9年，也完全不会说英语。我总是很惊讶她是如何度过各种难关的。
我不反对不会说中文的人，但有一次我遇到一个在这里住了15年的人，他不会说一句中文，却总是纠正他中国妻子的英语。有一次他还来纠正我丈夫的英语，我对此非常生气。很高兴我没有再见到那个人了!
WeChat image translation. The multiple translation APPs available. General body language. Pleco is a good resource as well.
What I don’t understand are the people married to Chinese and neither speak the other’s language. They literally communicate almost exclusively through WeChat. It is extremely odd to me… I haven’t determined if this is a sign of true love or desperation.
有微信图片翻译。有多种翻译APP可用。可以使用通用的肢体语言。 Pleco（注：一个英汉词典APP）也是一个很好的资源。
我搞不懂的是那些和中国人结婚却不会说对方语言的人。他们几乎完全通过微信进行交流。这对我来说太奇怪了……我不确定这到底是真爱还是绝望的迹象。
Wait, like the the Chinese partner doesn’t speak English and the foreign partner doesn’t speak Chinese? I don’t think I’ve ever heard of such a thing. That’s wild.
等等，你是说中国伴侣不会说英语的同时外国伴侣也不会说中文？我想我从来没有听说过这样的事情。那太疯狂了。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I’ve met couples like this. Both partners are usually losers and taking what they can get.
我遇到过这样的夫妻。双方通常都是失败者，并且会榨干他们能从对方身上得到的东西。
I'm pretty good at sucking at Chinese.
我很擅长说不好中文。
Depends what your obxtive is but I've known guys who hire an assistant. Generally a new grad, typically a local young bilingual female. I know what you're thinking but you're probably wrong. The relationship is strictly biz. They help arrange housing, online shopping, delivery, find food, get a job, find legal help to review leases and employment contracts, do banking related stuff, arrange trips, pay utilities, etc. Instant cred when doing any sort of business related interactions.
取决于你的目标是什么，我认识一些雇用助理的人。雇佣的通常是新毕业的当地年轻的双语女性。我知道你在想什么，但你可能错了。这种关系是严格的商业关系。她们帮助外国人安排住房、在线购物、送货、寻找食物、找工作、寻求法律帮助以审查租赁和雇佣合同、处理银行相关事务、安排旅行、支付水电费等。通过进行各种类型的业务相关的交互获得信誉。
From what I've observed: routine, apps, translate features, English signs, friends lol. Some people come and don't want to participate in the local culture or try to connect with others, so if you don't prioritize it you can still definitely survive (especially in larger cities). Many foreigners like this also often stick to expat bubbles and stay in international circles, so if they can't communicate or know how to do something, they're sure to get help from other foreigners. I'll never be fluent, but I feel like speaking the language makes life way easier (and more rewarding) in a foreign country.
根据我的观察：通过惯例、应用程序、翻译功能、英文标志和朋友哈哈。有些人来了，不想参与当地文化或尝试与他人联系，所以这些如果不是你优先考虑的事项，那你依然可以生存（尤其是在大城市里）。很多像这样的老外也经常混在同胞圈的泡泡里，只在国际圈子里混，所以如果他们不会沟通或者不会做某事，他们肯定会得到其他老外的帮助。我永远没办法流利地说中文，但我觉得说这种语言可以让我在国外的生活更轻松（也更有意义）。
I’m surprised by some of these comments! To be honest I don’t judge anyone for not learning, I find I’m exhausted on my days off and don’t have much energy for studying. But I agree with you that living in China without Chinese feels really difficult and I can’t understand how some people manage. I’ve been here a year and a half now and the small amount of Chinese I can speak makes a huge difference – being able to say stuff like “I want this” “do you have __” “where is ___” “that’s my ___” “can you help me” are a hell of a lot better than nothing.
我对这里的一些评论感到惊讶！老实说，我不会根据有没有学习中文而去评判任何人，就我而言，到了休息日我已经精疲力尽，没有太多精力去学习。但我同意你的看法，不会中文的人在中国生活真的很困难，我不懂有些人是怎么在这种情况下过下来的。我在这里已经一年半了，我会说的少量中文而且会产生巨大的不同——能够说出诸如“我想要这个”“你有 __”“___ 在哪里”“那是我的___”“你能帮帮我吗”之类的话总比一句都不会好。
I'd love to have even survival Chinese like that, but have not yet found a way to learn it. Do you have any tips?
我很想学会这样的生存汉语，但还没有找到学习它的方法。你有什么建议吗？
Whenever you need a word, quickly type it into google translate and it’ll bring up the word in pingyin. Listen and repeat once and twice and then use it. I’ve built up some basic vocabulary and phrases this way
每当你需要使用一个词时，快速将其输入谷歌翻译，它就会以拼音形式显示该词。聆听并重复几次，然后使用它。我通过这种方式建立了一些基本词汇和短语库。
To be honest I mostly learn from actually using it – for example, if I know I need to get a taxi to the train station in 10 minutes, I’d ask one of my Chinese friends/coworkers “how do I say, I want to go to the train station?” Then ask them to write it down for me on a bit of paper (pinyin and characters). I’d repeat it to myself a few times and try to ask without reading my piece of paper but if I needed it I could use it. After doing that a few times I wouldn’t need to ask any more because I had enough practice to be able to say “I want to go to the station” myself. Not only is using the language the best way to learn, but this also helps you to learn the stuff that’s actually useful. I think it’s also a really good idea to find a Chinese tutor (or someone who wants a language exchange) who can help you practice pinyin / pronouncing the sounds of Chinese. Once you can at least vaguely recognise and pronounce the different sounds, you will start to pick things up by recognising language people around you are using: for example, I kept hearing people say bu hao yi si after doing something wrong and I realised myself that it must be an expression of apology. This kind of "passive learning" will only start once you can identify the sounds – if everything just sounds like gobbledegook you won't notice patterns.
Sorry for the rambly reply – more than anything I'd just encourage you to try speaking, even if at first you're just reading aloud phrases from your phone notes. From my experience Chinese people are very encouraging and appreciate the effort :)
说实话，我主要是从实际使用中学习的--例如，如果我知道我需要在10分钟内打车去火车站，我会问我的一个中国朋友/同事“我想去火车站，要怎么说？”然后让他们在一张纸上为我写下来（拼音和汉字）。我会对着自己重复几遍，并试着不看我的纸片提问，实在记不住了，也可以用它。这样做了几次后，我就不需要再问了，因为我有足够的练习，能够自己说“我想去车站”。使用语言不仅是最好的学习方式，而且这也有助于你学习真正有用的东西。我认为找一个中文家教（或希望进行语言交流的人）也是一个非常好的主意，他可以帮助你练习拼音/中文的发音。一旦你至少能够模糊地识别和发出不同的音调，你就会开始通过识别你周围人使用的语言来学习：例如，我一直听到人们在做错事后说“bu hao yi si”，我意识到这一定是一种表达歉意的方式。这种“被动学习”只有在你能识别音调时才会管用--如果所有的声音听起来都像胡言乱语，你就没办法注意到。
很抱歉，我的回答很啰嗦--我只是想鼓励你试着去说话，即使一开始你只是大声朗读你手机笔记中的短语。根据我的经验，中国人很会鼓励你，并欣赏你的努力 :)
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
What’s even more jarring is that many of them are English teachers. They’re language teachers that refuse to study Chinese beyond the basics.
更令人震惊的是，他们中的许多人都是英语老师。他们是拒绝学习超出基础知识的中文的语言老师。
Because your job is to not use Chinese. My Chinese is good but i cannot use in the classroom, everyone at my job speaks English. If i didn't have a husband and friends how would I learn Chinese?
因为你的工作就是不用中文。我的中文很好，但我不能在课堂上使用，我工作中时每个人都说英语。所以如果我没有中国丈夫和朋友，我要如何学习中文？
My point is that if your job is to teach languages that it’s shocking that you can live in a country and not learn the language.
How you do it is up to you. I studied Chinese mainly at home. I watched tons of street interviews, listened to podcasts, chat with people on Tandem and other apps - voice messages, video calls - and even had conversations with AI in Chinese with audio and text (Character.AI). When I was in China I talked to servers, taxi drivers, strangers in bars. I made up conversations to have with myself out loud while doing chores - and when I hit a gap in knowledge I’d look up the missing information.
At my school I was allowed to use Chinese to communicate with my coworkers and my students parents. I met student’s parents after work and also met my colleagues for sports and drinks.
我的观点是，如果你的工作是教语言，却住在一个国家而不学习本地语言，这是令人震惊的。
你怎么做取决于你自己。我主要在家里学习中文。我看了大量的街头采访，听播客，在Tandem和其他应用程序上与人聊天--语音信息、视频通话--甚至用中文与人工智能进行音频和文本的对话。当我在中国时，我与服务员、出租车司机、酒吧里的陌生人交谈。我在做家务的时候大声和自己对话--当我遇到知识空白的时候，我就会查找所缺的信息。
在我的学校，我被允许使用中文与我的同事和学生家长交流。我在工作之余会见了学生的父母，也和我的同事一起运动和喝酒。
I speak a little Chinese, I get around by myself plenty l and shock my partner when I go handle things completely by myself sometimes.
But I suppose the same could be said about a lot of people. It’s not only foreigners in China who never learn the language. Plenty of immigrants in other places who don’t learn the language of where they’re living. Tons of people in America don’t speak English you know.
我会说一点中文，会自己四处走动。有时我完全自己处理一些事情，会让我的伴侣感到震惊。
但我想，很多人也可以这么说。不仅仅是在中国的外国人从不学习本地语言。在其他地方，也有很多移民不学习他们居住地的语言。比如在美国有很多人不会说英语，你知道的。
I work 50-60 hours a week. After work and on weekends, doing more 'work' to learn Chinese is honestly the last thing I want to do.
I have also learnt 2-3 languages to intermediate level before. I am just tired of learning languages, to be honest. I studied Chinese to beginner level and then just got tired. So I speak some, but my Chinese is still crap.
Plus with translation apps and the fact that English service is everywhere in Shanghai, there is not much motivation for me at the moment.
我每周工作50-60小时。下班后和周末，还要做更多的“工作”来学习中文，说实话是我最不愿意做的事情。
我之前也学过2-3种语言到中级水平。老实说，我单纯就是厌倦了学习语言。我把中文学到了初级水平，然后就累了。所以我会说一些，但我的中文仍然很烂。
再加上翻译软件和上海到处都是英语服务的事实，目前对我来说没有什么学习的动力。
Regarding the ubiquity of English in Shanghai...... last time I was there, I had reason to call the police for a wellness check on a disoriented senior. Stuck around after their arrival to make sure that they didn't need to ask us any questions I hadn't already answered on the phone.
They so couldn't conceive of a random foreigner being fluent and socially minded that they asked me which consulate I work at!
说到英语在上海无处不在......上次我在上海时，我给警察打电话，让他们来给一个迷迷糊糊的老人进行健康检查。在他们到达后，我还在附近逗留，以确保他们是否需要问我们任何我在电话里没有回答过的问题。
他们无法想象一个随机的外国人会说那么流利中文和这么有社会意识，以至于他们问我在哪个领事馆工作！
Lots of factors as to why people don't learn Chinese/ don't become fluent. I think a big part of it is where you live in China. Places like Shanghai/Beijing and probably Shenzhen/Guandong, you can easily get by with English and never need to know Chinese.
In my city not many people know English and most people will speak in the local dialect, which makes it even harder when you are just trying to learn standard Mandarin.
As others have said, laziness is a big factor as well as knowing others who already speak Chinese or relying on a wife/husband.
导致人们不学习中文/中文不流利的因素有很多。我认为很大一部分原因是你在中国的居住地。像上海/北京，可能还有深圳/广东这样的地方，可以很容易地用英语打交道，而不需要知道中文。
在我所在的城市，没有多少人懂英语，大多数人都以当地的方言交流，这使得你在试图学习标准普通话时更加困难。
正如其他人所说，懒惰也是一个很大的因素，还有就是认识已经会说中文的人或依靠中国妻子/丈夫。