网友评论：贫穷国家被迫面对人才流失的悲惨现实
The Tragic Reality of Brain Drain on Poor Countries
译文简介
人才流失现象指的是贫穷国家那些最优秀，最聪明的工作者为了追求更高的工资和更好的生活条件而移民去了富裕的国家。这种现象可能会导致贫穷国家发展受限，因为他们许多最优秀的工作者都已经离开了。
正文翻译
The phenomenon of brain drain is when the best and brightest workers from poor countries immigrate to rich countries in the pursuit of higher pay and living conditions. This can hinder the development of poor countries because many of their best workers leave.
人才流失现象指的是贫穷国家那些最优秀，最聪明的工作者为了追求更高的工资和更好的生活条件而移民去了富裕的国家。这种现象可能会导致贫穷国家发展受限，因为他们许多最优秀的工作者都已经离开了。
评论翻译
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I have the perfect example of brain drain, also in developed countries. Switzerland doesn't educate enough healthcare staff. German staff comes to Switzerland to fix it. Germany is lacking doctors now, polish people go and fix it. Poland lacks now doctors, which Ukrainians go and fix. Ukraine is the end of this line, except maybe Moldova. The numbers really match up greatly, and all because Switzerland is not keeping up with the population growth.
我这就有一个关于人才流失的完美例子，而且还是发生在发达国家的。瑞士没有培养出足够多的医护人员，所以瑞士引入了德国的相关人才。然而德国现在也开始缺医生了，所以波兰医护人员便去了德国。而这条传递链的最末端是乌克兰（也许还有摩尔多瓦吧）而这一切都是因为瑞士在医护人员培养方面没有跟上人口的增长速度。
Germany acts pretty stupid in this regard.We have incredibly high standards for becoming a doctor, but we rather import doctors (with lower standards) from foreign countries than allow more people to study medicine.
德国在这方面表现得非常愚蠢。我们对如何成为医生采取了非常严苛的标准，我们宁愿以更低的标准从国外引进医生，而不是允许更多人学医。
You are right but I dont think tiny Switzerland will cause big Germany such massive shortages. Switzerland's healthcare staff comes from all Europe, this isn't exclusive to Germany.
你说的对，但是我不认为一个小小的瑞士会让德国这样一个大国面对如此大规模的医护人员短缺问题。瑞士的医护人员来自全欧洲，并不仅仅来自德国。
So bottom line: it’s best to be a Swiss
所以结论就是：最好还是当个瑞士人
Brain drain is a massive issue in Greece as well.In Greece all universities are free, so people earn their degrees with an investment made by the government and then end up leaving Greece to work in other countries, hence the government getting nil ROI, and losing well educated individuals. This affects the economy not only by losing someone who would pay tax, but also by losing someone who could contribute to inovation, change and progress.I myself am an example of the above, educated in Greece and moved to the UK for a better life and career advancement.
人才流失在希腊也是一个相当大的问题。希腊所有的大学都是免费的，所以人们仰赖政府的投资获得了学位，最终却离开希腊前往其他国家工作，因此政府在这方面的投资回报率为零，我们失去了那些受过良好教育的人才。这对希腊经济的影响不仅在于我们失去了那些愿意纳税的人，还在于我们失去了那些能够为创新、变革和社会进步作出贡献的人才。我自己就是一个例子，我在希腊接受教育，后来我为了更好的生活和职业发展搬去了英国。
Yes, because there is no reason to stay in Greece. It is not only the salary. The culture and society in Greece is extremely depressing and toxic and people will never come to such culture
是的，因为人才根本没有理由留在希腊。不仅仅是出于工资原因。希腊的文化和社会都极度压抑且有毒。人们永远不愿投身于这样的文化之中。
@Jordbær Could you explain why it's toxic and depressing? At my university (Netherlands) there are indeed a lot of Greek students, I always wonder why so many of them wanted to leave Greece (besides economy/salaries)
@Jordbær 你能解释一下为什么希腊文化有毒且压抑吗？在我所就读的大学（位于荷兰），确实有很多来自希腊的学生，我一直想知道为什么会有这么多人想要离开希腊。(除了经济和工资这方面的原因）
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@NielsvdH As a Greek i can say that culture has almost nothing to do with the brain drain. I know a lot of Greeks that immigrated out during the crisis and all of them are just doing it for money. The culture and tradition isnt toxic or depressing, idk why the other user said that.
@NielsvdH 作为一个希腊人，我敢断言希腊的人才流失问题和文化几乎毫无关系。我知道很多希腊人都是在经济危机期间移民国外的，他们都是为了钱。希腊的文化和传统并不是有毒或者压抑的，我不知道为什么其他用户会这么说。
Yet Greece is a “developed economy”
然而希腊却是一个“发达国家”。
My neighbor has a similar story. He’s from the Netherlands and earned his Computer Science degree for free on the Dutch taxpayers dime. Now he lives in Arizona making $200,000/year and owns 2 houses. He wouldn’t be able to make that salary or own a house in the Netherlands but he can in Arizona.
我的邻居也有一个类似的故事。他来自荷兰，用荷兰纳税人的钱免费获得计算机科学学位后，他搬到了美国亚利桑那州。如今他年入20万美元，拥有两套房子。他在荷兰根本赚不到那么多钱，也买不起房子，但是在亚利桑那州，他能做到。
Problem with Grecce is lack of market friendly policies, govt control (not just tax) kills pvt investment, no growth
希腊的问题在于缺乏对市场友好的政策，政府的控制（不仅仅是税收）扼杀了私人投资，也扼杀了经济增长。
This happens in American cities. I live near Detroit and the young who go to college don't move back but move to the suburbs.
这种情况也发生在美国的城市里。我住在底特律附近，那些去上大学的年轻人不再搬回城区，而是搬到了郊区。
@NielsvdH I wouldn't say the culture is toxic and depressing. What is toxic and depressing is for example that I am a trained physiotherapist and in Greece I would be earning a salary of 100-200 euros above minimum salary per month as a physio, and I was making more money working as a waiter whilst still studying. I would also not have any (or 1-2) opportunities in my entirely career to develop into something other that what my degree is directly correlated to. Here in the UK I have so many more opportunities to e.g. become a department manager, do research etc etc.
@NielsvdH 我不会说希腊的文化是有毒和压抑的。例如，我是一名训练有素的理疗师。在希腊，作为一名理疗师，我每月的工资最多比最低工资高出个100~200欧元，而我一边学习一边做服务员时，反而能赚到更多钱。展望我的整个职业生涯，我不会有任何机会（或是只有一两个）发展与我的学位直接相关的事业。然而在英国，我则能拥有很多的机会，比如成为一名部门经理，或者是去做相关的研究等等
Africans, Bangladeshis & Indians would love to live and work in Greece. There are worse places in this world ok?
非洲人、孟加拉国人以及印度人迫不及待想去希腊生活和工作呢。世界上还有更加糟糕的地方，好吗？
Simple solution:You get a free secondary education in Greece only if you stay in Greece. If you move from Greece you have to repay your education. That keeps it fair for everyone.
一个很简单的解决方案：只有当你毕业之后留在希腊，你才能收获免费的教育。如果你哪天要离开希腊的话，你必须为自己在希腊所接受的教育付款。这对每一个人而言都是公平的。
Same happens in Estonia. Effectively the country was just training doctors who immediately after getting a degree, left the country.
同样的事情也发生在了爱沙尼亚。实际上，这个国家培养的医生往往会在获得学位后立马离开这个国家。
I believe that the northern EU countries (Germany) should be paying Greece for this reason. They go on about how Italy, Spain and Greece must not run a deficit, while being the recipient of the best talent from these countries.
我认为出于这个原因，北欧国家（以及德国）应该向希腊提供援助。他们一边要求意大利，西班牙和希腊不要出现财政赤字，一边却不断吸纳着这些国家最优秀的人才。
In Oregon we had a serious lack of medical professionals (dentists and general practice) so we had an avenue where someone that wanted to go into one of those fields could get nearly free education, on the condition that they would stay and practice medicine in the state of Oregon for at least 10 years (or something close, I forget.).
我们俄勒冈州曾面临严重的医疗专业人员短缺问题（牙医以及全科医生），所以我们找到了一个办法，那就是让那些想要进入这一领域的人们获得近乎于免费的教育，条件是他们必须在俄勒冈州行医至少10年（又或者是接近10年，具体数字我忘了）。
这个政策似乎相当奏效，很少有医生愿意离开（即便他们可以），因为他们已经在这里花了10年时间去建立自己的事业。医生自然也可以提前解约，然后偿还州政府支付的教育费用。我敢断言，大部分遭受人才流失问题折磨的国家都可以采取类似的举措。
Why Germans are not leaving they also have free education
为什么德国人不离开呢？他们也有免费教育啊。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I'm from the Philippines, a Developing Country, and I'm part of that Brain Drain. I came from the top university of my country and wanted to give back since I was a scholar and my education was paid for by the tax payers. I had the opportunity to study in the US and even at the big tech companies like Microsoft and Autodesk. My biggest reason for not wanting to come back home is culture. Work culture in the tech industry is about growth. Sure, there are a lot of lay offs but you grow in every opportunity you land on. Back in the Ph, work is about personalities and culture. The quality of your work is based on who your friends are and which surname you have - your results can be ignored if you belong to the right family.
我来自菲律宾，一个发展中国家，我也是人才流失现象的一部分。我来自我们国家最顶尖的大学。我是一名学者，而且我的学费也是由纳税人支付的，所以我想要回馈社会。后来我有了一个去美国学习的机会，甚至得到了在微软和欧特克等大型科技公司实习的机会。我不想回国的最大原因是文化。科技行业的工作文化关乎增长。当然，确实也有很多人被裁员，但是你能在每一个自己抓住的机会中收获成长。而在菲律宾，工作则仅关乎个人身份和当地文化。你的工作质量取决于你的朋友是谁，你姓什么---如果你来自一个正确的家庭，那就没有人在乎你的工作是否能产生效果。
I am from sweden but decided to moved to the philippines. Sweden was, and is still, one of the richest countries of the world, but wont be for too long. Sweden has under the 2000s and 2010s suffered from a DOUBLE brain drain. Not only are smart and educated people and companies moving out of sweden, but alot of refugees with almost no education migrated to sweden as we gave comparatively generous allowances and were the only country to give out permanent visa,. In the philippines where I live there is an influx of americans and westerners like me who had enough and either move here permanently or living here for long periods.I also think the US can also collapse at any moment, but as long as they keep their image as a land of opportunities alive, they can keep on living forever.
我来自瑞典，但我当初作出决定后搬到了菲律宾。瑞典过去是，如今依旧是世界上最富裕的国家之一，但是这种情况不会持续太久了。2000年代以及2010年代，瑞典遭遇了双重流失。不仅仅是那些聪明且受过教育的人们离开了瑞典，甚至连很多企业也离开了。然而我们接纳过来的难民却几乎没有受过任何的教育，因为我们给与相对慷慨的津贴，而且是欧洲唯一一个给难民发放永久签证的国家。我在菲律宾生活的地方有很多的美国人和西方人，他们都受够了这一切，要么在这里永居，要么是长期生活在这里。我觉得美国也可能随时都会崩溃，但是只要他们能够维护住自己“机遇之地”的形象，他们就可以永远活下去。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Interesting note on the brain drain: it is happening within countries as well, as rural regions go extinct and cities bloat to unmanageable sizes, with pollution, constant traffic jams and unaffordable housing.
一个与人才流失有关的有趣事项：这事也会发生在国家内部，农村地区消失，城市的规模膨胀到失控。污染、持续的交通堵塞以及让人负担不起的住房。
As a Chinese American, I whole heartely agree. My parents, my wife and I are all came to the US to study and graduated with doctoral degrees. With better higher education, 10x income, greater personal freedom. Millions of of the most tallented Chinese students immigrated. Of course, with the higher income and wealth accumulation, we also paid much more taxes than the average american families. It was good for our families, and it was good for the US who tooks us in when we had nothing but the cloths on our backs.
作为一个华裔美国人，我完全赞同。我的父母，妻子以及我自己都来美国留学，并获得了博士学位。我们在美国收获了更好的高等教育、10倍的收入以及更多的个人自由。数以百万计最有才华的中国学生选择了移民。当然，随着收入和财富的提升，我们所缴纳的税金也比普通美国家庭多得多。这对我们有好处，对那个在我们身无分文时接纳我们的美国也有好处。
Hey internet stranger! I'm so proud of you and your family.
嘿，互联网上的陌生人！我为你和你的家庭感到骄傲。
I love hearing this. We welcome all kinds in America! All you need to do is work hard.
我喜欢听到这样的故事。我们美国欢迎所有人！你们唯一需要做的是努力工作。
Congrats on living the American Dream! These days, I think most immigrants do a better job embodying the American spirit than natives do.
恭喜你实现了美国梦！时至今日，我觉得大多数移民比本土人更能彰显美国精神。
Same thing has been happening inside countries as well, take Japan for example. Schools and hospitals in rural areas carry the costs of raising children, but the best and brightest leave for cities like Tokyo where they can earn much more. And Tokyo then reaps the benefits of taxing those top earners, whereas the rural cities have to make more and more cuts, feeding this vicious cycle.To counter this trend, Japan has introduced the "hometown tax" program that gives taxpayers the choice to direct part of their tax to other regions. As a thank you and further enticement, generally a gift from that region (often local produce) is returned.
同样的事情也发生在各个国家的内部，以日本为例吧。农村地区的学校和医院承担了抚养孩子的成本，但是那些最优秀和最聪明的人才却去了像东京这样的城市，因为他们可以在那里赚到更多钱。然后东京又通过向这些高收入者征税获益，而那些边缘城市则不得不持续不断地削减开支，从而加剧了这种恶性循环。为了应对这一趋势，日本推出了“家乡税”计划，让纳税人可以选择将部分税款直接转移至其他地区。作为感谢以及进一步的诱惑，他们通常会收到该地区寄给他们的礼品（通常是一些当地的农产品）。
As an Indonesian, I have lots of friends and family members who've gone abroad, yet for the vast majority of them, they go abroad to get education and maybe work a bit but then quickly come back. Very few of them actually decide to stay, despite the better standard of living abroad. Looking at the data, Indonesia also has a very low rate of emigration in proportion to its population; it's more common to see Vietnamese or Filipino people in developed countries as opposed to Indonesians, despite Indonesia having a larger population than both of these countries combined. This topic seems to have never been discussed and I can't figure out why
作为一名印尼人，我的很多亲戚以及朋友都选择了出国，但是对他们中的绝大部分人而言，出国只是为了接受教育，他们会在国外工作一段时间后返回印尼。尽管外国的生活水平更高，但是他们中很少有人会决定留在海外。从数据上来看，印尼裔移民的比例也很低。你在发达国家很容易看到越南或者菲律宾移民，但是印尼移民则不多见，尽管印尼的人口比这两个国家人口相加还多。这个话题似乎从来没有被讨论过，我也不知道为什么出现这种现象。
Different culture different mindset .
不同的文化，不同的思维。
This is a very real problem. I’m from a third world country, and have just graduated from the best engineering schools of my country. But the lack of jobs, and other possibilities have made it so almost all of my class mates have preferred to go to Europe/ Canada for better life.
这是一个非常现实的问题。我来自一个第三世界国家，刚刚从我们国家最好的工程学校毕业。但是由于缺少工作机会以及其他的可能性，几乎我所有的同学都更愿意去欧洲或者加拿大寻求更好的生活。
It also happens between developed economies. See at the number of young professionals moving from Italy or Spain to Germany or Nordic countries. I'm always amazed by the number of coworkers from abroad in those countries. Population in South and Eastern Europe are aging and a large percentage of young educated people just move away. It will have long term important consequences. I cannot see any way to reverse this as Northern Europe just keep getting more attractive with the influx of new workers with higher education.
这种现象在发达经济体之间也有存在。看看从意大利或者西班牙移居至德国或者北欧国家的年轻职业人士有多少吧。这些国家的外国同事数量总是让我惊叹不已。南欧和东欧的人口正在老龄化，大部分受过教育的年轻人都搬走了。这将产生一些长期的重大影响。随着受过高等教育的年轻就业者一直不断地涌入，北欧将会变得愈发有吸引力，我实在看不出有什么办法能够扭转这一局面。
I can understand people from truly poor countries who immigrate, but the supposedly developed middle-income countries of Southern/Eastern Europe also has people moving out. Highly educated people of all things too. Is nobody out there loyal to their country anymore?
我能理解那些来自极度贫穷国家的人们选择移民，但是南欧和东欧的这些所谓的发达的中等收入国家的人们也选择移民就让我有点无法理解了，而且出国的偏偏还都那些受过高等教育的人才。难不成现在已经没有人忠于自己的国家了吗？
This also happens in the West as well. I've heard many Canadians who choose to live in the US after finishing school simply because they're making double what they would make in Canada. It's part of the reason why Canada's economy has been stagnating, it's proximity to the US causes a lot of the best talent to leave the country.
这种现象也发生在了西方。我听说有很多加拿大人毕业后选择住在美国，只因他们在美国的收入会是在加拿大的两倍。这就是加拿大经济一直停滞不前的部分原因，它太靠近美国了，这导致很多优秀的人才都离开了这个国家。
Better weather too. But not as polite!
天气也更好，不过美国人不像加拿大人那般礼貌！
@Austin Baccus Haha, so true. I love my Canadian colleagues!
@Austin Baccus 哈哈，太真实了，我爱我的加拿大同事！
In Brazil Brain Drain is an issue too. I have an Eletronics and I.T Degree from a public. university and most of my class left the country. This is becoming so bad that some companies like Embraer and Avibras sued Boeing in an Federal Court here for it.
巴西也在面临人才流失问题。我在一家公立大学拿到了电子和信息技术学位，我大部分的同学都离开了这个国家。这种情况变得如此糟糕，以至于Embraer 和Avibras等巴西航空公司不得不在巴西联邦法院起诉了波音公司。
worth mentioning that public universities are free, and they are also the best universities in Brazil; so the gov. funds all of these students just for them to leave to US/EU etc.
值得一提的是，巴西的公立大学是免学费的，而且它们还是巴西最好的大学；所以，这基本上就相当于政府资助了所有这些学生，而他们却转身去了美国和欧盟等国家。