发展中国家或新兴经济体的许多人对发达国家，特别是欧洲和北美的发达国家有什么误解？（2）
What do many people in developing or emerging economies get wrong about developed countries, particularly in Europe and North America?
译文简介
谢邀，我是中国人。我出生在中国，在德国生活了近10年。
正文翻译
What do many people in developing or emerging economies get wrong about developed countries, particularly in Europe and North America?
发展中国家或新兴经济体的许多人对发达国家，特别是欧洲和北美的发达国家有什么误解？
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Knows Mandarin Chinese
A2A, Chinese here. I was born in China and have lived in Germany for almost 10 years.
China is a typical developing country. After seen decades of rapid China’s economic development while living in Germany for almost 10 years, I thought ordinary Chinese people has almost the same living standard as the German.
I was wrong and ignorant.
One example. Germany has provided much more accessibility facilities for the disadvantaged, especially for the person who has physical disability.
This is a typical side kneeling German bus. It provide much convenience for the people sitting on the wheelchair. Almost all the buses I saw in Germany has this function.
I have seen only few of these in China.
This is one of the many things we should learn from the developed countries - a more compassionate society.
谢邀，我是中国人。我出生在中国，在德国生活了近10年。
中国是一个典型的发展中国家。在德国生活了近10年，看到了中国经济几十年的快速发展，我觉得普通中国人的生活水平和德国人差不多。
我错了，我很无知。
一个例子。德国为弱势群体提供了更多的无障碍设施，特别是为身体有残疾的人。
这是一辆典型的侧倾式德国巴士。它为坐在轮椅上的人提供了很多便利。我在德国看到的几乎所有巴士都有这种功能。
在中国，我只见过几辆这样的车。
这是我们应该向发达国家学习的许多东西之一 --一个更有同情心的社会。
In the early days of Singapore’s MRT system, there was no provision for the disabled, no elevators, no ramps, no nothing.
In parliament, one MP actually said that it would be cheaper for the government to hire a fleet of Mercedes-Benz vehicles to transport the disabled that it would be to provide elevators and ramps at every station. That was in 1987.
Today 30 plus years later, elevators and facilities for the disabled are available at most if not all stations.
I think the priority was to get the system up and running for most people. Over time, these facilities were included in all new stations and fitted to existing ones.
Give China time. It has a quarter of mankind to look after. And I’m going to stick my neck out and say it’s done well. So far.
在新加坡地铁系统的早期，没有为残疾人提供的服务，没有电梯，没有坡道，什么都没有。
在议会中，一位议员居然说，政府雇用一队奔驰车来运送残疾人，比在每个车站都设置电梯和坡道要便宜得多。那是在1987年。
30多年后的今天，不能说所有，大部分车站都有了电梯和残疾人服务设施。
我认为当务之急是让系统为大多数人启动并运行。随着时间的推移，这些为相对少数人服务的设施会被包含在所有新车站中并安装到已有车站中。给中国一点时间。它有四分之一的人类要照顾。我想说的是，它做得很好。到目前为止。
Thank you for sharing the information from Singapore. Yes, China did a great job in lifting people out of poverty. For the next stage, good experiences for treating disadvantaged people from developed countries we should also learn.
谢谢你分享来自新加坡的信息。是的，中国在帮助人们脱贫方面做得很好。对于下一阶段，我们也应该学习发达国家对待弱势人群的好经验。
It’s the rate of change in China that is truly phenomenal. It is on such a scale it defies descxtion.
中国变化的速度才是真正惊人的。它的规模之大，让人无法形容。
In all fairness, the first world countries can *afford* to be more compassionate. I’m sure that China will do the same thing once Chinese incomes have reached first world levels a few years from now!
平心而论，第一世界国家可以*负担*得起更多的同情心。我相信，一旦中国人的收入在几年后达到第一世界的水平，中国也会做同样的事情！
Yes. I really hope so.
是的，我真的希望如此。
>>This is one of the many things we should learn from the developed countries - a more compassionate society
But there is more than one way to skin a cat. In some countries you don't need leaning busses, the driver and conductor would just get off and help lift a wheelchair and owner onto the bus.
>>这是我们应该向发达国家学习的许多东西之一--一个更富有同情心的社会。
但是，事情不只有一种解决方法。在一些国家，你不需要倾斜的公交车，司机和售票员会直接下车，帮助把轮椅及其主人抬到车上。
You are right. Chinese should not do exaclty what Germans did. Germans do a good job in accessibility facilities that we Chinese should learn from because there are much more disadvantaged people in China.
你是对的。中国人不应该完全按照德国人的做法去做。德国人在无障碍设施方面做得很好，我们中国人应该学习，因为中国有更多的弱势人群。
The only compassion we have is the one we can afford.
70 years ago the Germans were Nazis committing genocide.
Today they are an outsize exporter with Europe's largest economy.
China needs to get rich first.
我们能表现出的同情心是我们能够承受的。
70年前，德国人是实施种族灭绝的纳粹分子。
今天，他们是一个拥有欧洲最大经济体的超大型出口国。
中国需要先富起来。
They were Nazis, it is true. But one thing they did and do better than their counterpart, Japan, they are genuinely repentant about what their country did to other people and nations. In 1973 or thereabout I was in Germany as a student when the newly elected chancellor Wily Brandt went to Poland and knelled down and asked for pardon for the crimes committed by his country. In Germany all high school students MUST take compulsory German history, including Nazism in great depth. Today it is a crime in Germany to deny the evil deeds of Nazi.
他们曾是纳粹分子，这是事实。但有一件事他们做得比他们的同行日本好，那就是他们对自己国家对其他人民和国家所做的事情真正地忏悔。1973年左右，我在德国当学生，当时新当选的总理维利-勃兰特去了波兰，为他的国家所犯的罪行下跪请求赦免。在德国，所有的高中生都必须学习必修的德国历史，包括对纳粹主义非常深入的剖析。今天，在德国，否认纳粹的罪恶行径是一种犯罪。
Well China can afford anything… they provide to the world. All iPhones are made in China many electronics are made in China and many car manufacturers get their parts made in China. I believe China can do anything they would see themselves doing. The only problem being like any other developing country as soon as it’s people come into money they set out for other things like fast cars, yachts etc. It’s pretty common for poor people to do that once they become rich just to show how rich they are until they become poor again. But, if they would hold their head firmly and decide where to put it… it definitely can be done
中国可以负担得起任何......他们向世界提供的东西。所有的苹果手机都是在中国制造的，许多电子产品都是在中国制造的，许多汽车制造商的零部件都是在中国制造的。我相信中国可以做任何他们认为自己可以做的事情。唯一的问题是，像任何其他发展中国家一样，一旦人民有了钱，他们就开始追求其他东西，如赛车、游艇等。穷人一旦变得富有，就会这样做，以显示他们有多富有，直到他们再次变得贫穷，这是很常见的。但是，如果他们能保持清醒并决定什么是正确的......这绝对是可以做到的。
Not all Germans were nazis. Many Germans actually sheltered Jews risking their lives. Even some amongst Nazi helped Jews to escape.
并非所有德国人都是纳粹分子。许多德国人实际上冒着生命危险庇护了犹太人。甚至有些纳粹分子还帮助犹太人逃跑。
Yeah, sure. They didn’t even let Slavic workers into the shelters during Dresden bombing because the shelters were only for Germans.
是的，当然。在德累斯顿轰炸期间，他们甚至不让斯拉夫工人进入避难所，因为避难所只为德国人准备。
This also has to do with the individual vs communal society characteristics. In Asia, you can expect somebody (at least a close family member) will fully assist you if you are disabled, while in the West you are expected to function normally by yourself.
But for me personally, I prefer having such facilities to not having it at all, since there's always a time when you can't rely on other people.
这也与个人与公共社会的特点有关。在亚洲，如果你是残疾人，你可以期望有人（至少是亲密的家庭成员）会全力协助你，而在西方，你被期望靠自己正常生活。
但对我个人来说，我更喜欢有这样的设施，而不是完全没有，因为总有一天你会无法依靠其他人。
I am from Singapore. It may please you to know China is many small ways better than Singapore in this area. For one, public transport for senior citizens is free in many Chinese cities.
我来自新加坡。你可能会高兴地知道，中国在这方面比新加坡有很多小的进步。首先，在许多中国城市，老年人的公共交通是免费的。
Thank you for your information. I didn’t visit Singapore before. But after listening a lot of speeches from PM Lee Kuan Yew, I think there are many good experiences we can learn from you.
谢谢你的信息。我以前没有去过新加坡。但在听了李光耀总理的很多演讲后，我认为有很多好的经验可以向你学习。
Speaking of busses, because stricter emission standards were to be introduced our cities, our regional public transport company sold all of it’s older, but still perfectly serviceable busses to China.
I spotted one in a recent news item about Chengdu (I don’t remember exactly what it was about, but it wasn’t to do with the Corona virus) and the reason I spotted it was because the people operating them, haven’t bothered to repaint them. All they’ve done to the outside, is replace the destination display with one which can display Chinese characters.
Ok, on an intellectual level I can understand having “DeLijn” written down the side of a bus won’t mean a whole lot to the average Chinese person, but seing one of “our” busses going down the road in China, almost unaltered, was a bit of a shock.
说到公交车，由于我们的城市要实行更严格的排放标准，我们地区的公共交通公司把它所有老旧但仍然可以使用的公交车卖给了中国。
我在最近一则关于成都的新闻中发现了一辆公交车（我不记得具体内容了，但不是与COVID病毒有关），我发现它的原因是经营这些公交车的人没有费心去重新粉刷它们。他们所做的一切，只是把目的地的显示屏换成了一个可以显示中文的显示屏。
好吧，从理性上讲，我可以理解，在巴士侧面写上"DeLijn "对普通中国人来说并不意味着什么，但看到"我们"的巴士在中国的道路上行驶，几乎没有任何改变，这让我感到有点震惊。
That is very interesting. I didn’t know that before. Because normally a used vehilcle is not allowed to import to China. Can you give me the information source please.
这非常有趣。我以前不知道这一点。因为通常二手车是不允许进口到中国的。你能给我信息来源吗？
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Big ask, Floyd, as the sale was years ago. Like I said, they sort of pre-emptively sold them, but I’ll have look on the news archive site.
这就难倒我了，因为销售是在几年前。就像我说的，他们是在法规还没实行前有点先发制人地把它们卖了，我得在新闻档案网站上查查看。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I don't think your sources are reliable. If Chengdu wants to replace the current old bus, they must buy a new one. In particular, Chengdu is not so poor in manufacturing all kinds of buses in China at present. China's current demand is gradual new energy. What they need to buy is pure electricity or other new energy buses. They are not likely to buy second-hand buses from Germany.
我认为你的消息来源并不可靠。如果成都要更换目前的旧公交车，他们必须购买新的。特别是，成都目前在中国的各种公交车制作方面并不差。中国目前的需求是逐步替换成新能源。他们需要购买的是纯电或其他新能源客车。不可能从德国购买二手巴士。
Everything costs. Many people don’t realize this.
In Swiss, there are many public nuclear bunkers with beds, 3 month of food and water, entertatment facilities, and operation rooms. It’s not because Swiss people are worried about a nuclear war, it’s just they have too much money to spend.
一切都是有代价的。许多人没有意识到这一点。
在瑞士，有许多公共的核掩体，有床、3个月的食物和水、治疗设施和手术室。这不是因为瑞士人担心核战争，只是他们有太多的钱可以花。
I am from Switzerland and I am really wondering where all of those bunkers with beds & 3months of food are hidden. Do you have more information about that? Maybe a lix to the source?
我来自瑞士，我很想知道那些有床和3个月食物的掩体都藏在哪里。你有更多这方面的信息吗？也许可以提供来源的链接？
Well if we told you, they won’t be secret anymore, would they.
如果我们告诉你，它们就不会再是秘密了，不是吗。
You mean those super secret bunkers that everybody outside Switzerland knows about but no one inside Switzerland knows anything? Then I need to upxe your information. They have more then just beds and food. They basically build an entire ocean underneath Switzerland with sunbeds and whatnot. so in times like Corona we all go swimming and sunbathing in those bunkers where the sun is shining although there is no sunshine at all.
你是说那些在瑞士以外的人都知道，但在瑞士境内却无人知晓的超级秘密地堡？那么我需要更新一下你的信息。他们有更多的东西，不仅仅是床和食物。他们基本上在瑞士地下建造了一整个海洋，有日光浴床和其他东西。所以在像爆发COVID的这种时候，我们都会在那些地堡里游泳和晒太阳，虽然根本就没有阳光，但阳光却很灿烂。
Don’t forget that apart from a higher GDP per capita, a country should also have had that level of GDP per capita for a long period of time. China has the former, but not the latter.
不要忘了，除了较高的人均GDP，一个国家还应该在很长一段时间内拥有这样的人均GDP水平。中国有前者，但没有后者。
You are right, Floyd, but you fail to ask yourself how many centuries did take Europeans to get where they are today. China embarked on development just 40 years ago. China has a long way to go before it can be compared with the West. I studied lived and worked in Germany for ten years in early 60s, and those facilities you are talking about were not there. Tchuss
你是对的，但你没有问自己，欧洲人花了多少个世纪才取得今天的成就。中国在40年前才开始发展。在与西方国家相比之前，中国还有很长的路要走。我60年代初在德国学习生活和工作了10年，那时候你说的那些设施是不存在的。
Two countries are in totally different stage of development: China’s just accomplished 2nd industrial revolution around 2012, which USA did it on 1920, and Germany did it before Americans.
You are comparing apples with oranges.
I lived in USA nearly 10 years, now back in Shanghai.
两个国家处于完全不同的发展阶段。中国在2012年左右刚刚完成了第二次工业革命，而美国在1920年就完成了，德国比美国人还早。
你在拿苹果和橙子做比较。
我在美国生活了近10年，现在回到了上海。
Same should apply when people sugar coat China like it's the most advanced nation on earth.
当人们把中国说成是地球上最先进的国家时，怎么不提这种说法了？
That is the same impression when I came to Singapore for the 1st time, the local facilities for wheelchair user are so well-prepared. However, in Beijing, many construction designers don't take disabled peoples needs really into consideration. For instance, once I saw a very slippery concrete slope with wheelchair sign in a 4A tourist attraction, can u imagine it is specialized for wheelchair users? Its way too steep n dangerous even for a normal tourists.
这也是我第一次来新加坡时的印象，当地为轮椅使用者准备的设施非常完善。但是，在北京，很多建筑设计师并没有真正考虑到残疾人的需求。例如，有一次我在一个4A级旅游景点看到一个非常滑的水泥坡，上面有轮椅标志，你能想象这是专门为轮椅使用者准备的吗？它太陡峭了，即使对普通游客来说也很危险。
I think there is a very interesting comparison with public facilities in Hong Kong for this topic. Much of Hong Kong’s transport was not handicap friendly even though HK has instituted Universal design (ADA/DDA equivalents in HK) in 1984. Much of HK’s transportation designs and building accesses were not designed with such standards and many have to be retrofitted, and HK was considered a much more wealthy place than China. Certainly China has alot of catch up to do but newer buses are equipped with wheelchair spaces and such. I think there is still a lag in the software (training and mentality of people) vs hardware which are easier to refine and improve.
我认为这个话题与香港的公共设施有一个非常有趣的比较。尽管香港在1984年制定了通用设计（相当于香港的ADA/DDA），但香港的许多交通设施对残疾人并不友好。香港的许多交通设计和建筑通道都不是按照这种标准设计的，许多都必须进行改造，而且香港被认为是一个比中国更富裕的地方。当然，中国还有很多事情要做，并且较新的公共汽车都配备了轮椅空间等。我认为在软件方面（人们的培训和心态）与硬件方面仍有差距，后者更容易完善和改进。
China is really not a typical developing economy. It's the fastest growing
中国确实不是一个典型的发展中经济体。它是增长最快的
It sounds like you’re trying to persuade the world that China is still a developing country. No, she’s not. The only problem she has is social gaps inside herself and it’s about the culture not about level of development.
听起来你好像在试图说服世界中国仍然是一个发展中国家。不，她不是。她唯一的问题是自己内部的社会差距，这与文化有关，与发展水平无关。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Thank you for your opinion. You are right about the social gaps. I was not trying to persuade other people. I wish China could be a developed country but right now it is not. A developed country is not only a country with beautiful city skylines but also can provided enough unoticed facilities when needed. In the region of Beijing or Shanghai, it is developed. In my hometown however, far from developed.
谢谢你的意见。你对社会差距的看法是正确的。我并不是想说服其他人。我希望中国能成为一个发达国家，但现在它还不是。发达国家不仅是一个拥有美丽的城市天际线的国家，而且还是能在需要时提供足够的没有人注意过却很重要的设施。在北京或上海地区，它是发达的。然而，在我的家乡，却远非发达。
I think you are misinterpreting concept of developing country. Not just tech but every other trend also develops in a developing country. You can look into stats of human rights, welfare or any other mark in past 50 years, and you will see improvement in those areas just like infrastructure. You cannot think everything at once. Processes are perfected in time. Once China done with buses and roads etc. time will come somebody will highlight the disability and barriers and improvement will come in that area as well. It is unfair to take such examples and bash developing countries.
我认为你误解了发展中国家的概念。不仅仅是科技，其他所有的方面在发展中国家也还在发展。你可以研究一下过去50年的人权、福利或任何其他标志性的统计数据，你会看到这些领域的改善，就像基础设施一样。你不可能一下子就解决所有的事情。进程是随着时间的推移而完善的。一旦中国完成了公共汽车和道路等的建设，就会有人强调残疾和障碍人士需要的照顾，在这个领域也会有改善。拿这些例子来抨击发展中国家是不公平的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Ha. This is a very hard teaching. Wheel chair people are not considered here in Nigeria. All our buses are much higher than this. There's however a new set of city buses in one of our states now and they have this pneumatic suspension raising and lowering thing. But the rest of the roads to the busstop itself is not even good for any disabled person to attempt the trip.
哈。这是一个非常难的一关。在尼日利亚，这里从不考虑坐轮椅的人。我们所有的公交车台阶都比这个高得多。然而，在我们的一个州，现在有一套新的城市公交车，它们有这种气动悬架升降的东西。但是通往巴士站的其他道路本身根本不适合任何残疾人行动。
The compassion of a government is highly dependent on the amount of money it has. If you go to a third world country you will find a total lack of compassion, not because they don’t care but rather because they can’t afford to care.
一个政府的同情心在很大程度上取决于它的资金流。如果你去第三世界国家，你会发现完全没有同情心，不是因为他们不关心，而是因为他们没有能力关心。
I thoughtChina has it al biggest economy etc
中国的经济不是挺牛的嘛
I am sure this will come in time in China also. China is still not fully developed, while Germany is.
我相信这在中国也会及时出现的。中国还没有完全发展，而德国已经发展了。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
When I first visit Germany, I'm shocked to found people bring their bicycle with them in subway and train. I really love this.
当我第一次访问德国时，我很震惊地发现人们在地铁和火车上都带着他们的自行车。我真的很喜欢这一点。
Passionate!!! How about Germans killing or helping Hitler to kill 3 million jews and 30 million Russians? Using Atomic bomb, Dioxin or agent orange, Napalm, Phosphorous bombs, depleted uranium etc etc on poor people and doing all types of experiments on poor people to see the effects of some medicines or germs.(Tuskagee experiments and same in Guatemala).They bombed more than 37 countries in last 30 years grabbed all the natural resources from poor countries making them more poorer and creating famines. So they have enough money to develop the West.China is standing up with their own effort and I admire their swift actions.See how Chinese handled Covid 19 keeping people safer than western governments who are letting their citizens die like flies with no concrete plans.The busses you describe can be seen in ma y countries and China will operate them too.
放屁！！！德国人杀害或帮助希特勒杀害300万犹太人和3000万俄罗斯人怎么说？他们对穷人使用原子弹、二恶英或橙剂、凝固汽油弹、磷弹、贫化铀等等，并在穷人身上做各种类型的实验，以观察一些药物或病菌的效果（图斯卡吉实验和危地马拉实验）。所以他们有足够的钱来发展西方国家。中国正以自己的努力站起来，我钦佩他们的迅速行动。看看中国是如何处理Covid 19的，使人民比在西方政府下更安全，后者让他们的公民像苍蝇一样死去，没有具体计划。
Why there are a lot more homeless people on the street in Europe and US than China?
为什么欧洲和美国的街头流浪者比中国多得多？
Good to see a Chinese accepting the flaws of their country.
Otherwise most on quora are not like that.
很高兴看到一个中国人看到他们国家的不足。
然而Quora上的大多数都不是这样的。
More compassionate I think because they can afford to be compassionate in cases like these… Are they actually compassionate I doubt after how the American govt is treating its citizens on the covid time…
我认为他们更有同情心，是因为他们有能力在这样的情况下表现出同情心......至于看到美国政府如何对待其公民的情况，我对他们是否真的有同情表示怀疑。
A very common misconception in Asia about Europe and North America is that Europeans and North Americans are much more individualistic.
It’s true that they are more individualistic, but not in terms of what many Asians think. They are more individualistic in the sense that everyone has the freedom to aspire to be what they want to be. The pressure to, let’s say, just get married into someone your family knows, is generally minimum. However, unlike what many Asians think, Europeans and North Americans care about their family and society. In the West, a broken family is not a sign of rugged individualism, but is a sign that more trouble will come. Most people have a functional family.
The biggest difference with Asia is that, because getting decent-paying job is much easier in the West, the social security system is much better, and the legal system is robust, you usually don’t need the help of your family just to live independently at a reasonable comfort level.
在亚洲，对欧洲和北美的一个非常普遍的误解是，欧洲人和北美人更具个人主义。
他们确实更有个人主义，但不是许多亚洲人认为的那样。他们更加个人主义的意义是，每个人都有自由，渴望成为他们想成为的人。比方说，嫁给一个你的家人认识的人，这种压力一般来说是最小的。然而，与许多亚洲人的想法不同，欧洲人和北美人是关心他们的家庭和社会的。在西方，一个破碎的家庭不是粗犷的个人主义的标志，而是更多麻烦即将到来的标志。大多数人都有一个正常的家庭。
与亚洲最大的区别是，由于在西方获得体面的工作要容易得多，社会保障体系要好得多，法律体系也很健全，你通常不需要家人的帮助就能独立生活在一个合理的舒适水平上。
Agree and disagree.
It is a different culture and different value.
The way majority of EU and NA (Europeans) deal with their family members is considered inappropriate in Asia.
EU and NA like apples. Asians like oranges. Asians dislike apples and consider apples as bad taste fruit.
That’s all.
Individualism and collectivism are quite different. These are neutral words. Relax.
既同意也不同意。
这是一种不同的文化和不同的价值观。
大多数欧洲和北美洲（欧洲人）处理其家庭成员关系的方式在亚洲被认为是不合适的。
欧洲和北美洲喜欢苹果。亚洲人喜欢橙子。亚洲人不喜欢苹果，认为苹果是味道不好的水果。
这就是全部。
个人主义和集体主义是完全不同的。这些都是中性词。放轻松。