发展中国家或新兴经济体的许多人对发达国家，特别是欧洲和北美的发达国家有什么误解？
What do many people in developing or emerging economies get wrong about developed countries, particularly in Europe and North America?
译文简介
在亚美尼亚生活了18年后，我搬到了英国，在剑桥大学学习。以下是我注意到的情况。
正文翻译
What do many people in developing or emerging economies get wrong about developed countries, particularly in Europe and North America?
发展中国家或新兴经济体的许多人对发达国家，特别是欧洲和北美的发达国家有什么误解？
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MEng, University of Cambridge (2021)
After living for 18 years in Armenia, I moved to the UK to study at the University of Cambridge. Here is what I noticed:
·They think living in a developed country means you are automatically rich.
This is obviously wrong. I have seen more homeless people in the first few weeks living in Cambridge than in my entire life in Armenia.
·They exaggerate the living conditions of those in developed countries.
They hear about the $5000 monthly salary their neighbor’s son makes in the US and they think he has the riches of the world. What they forget to account for are
1.Taxes: which means out of $5000, you are probably going to have $3500 left.
2.Prices: in Armenia, you can eat quality and healthy meal in a cafe with as low as $2. That figure is more than $6 in developed countries. Rent in the center of Yerevan for a full 2-room apartment is around $400. In London, that’s probably at least four times more.
If you account for all of these, $5000 is not that much.
剑桥大学工程硕士(2021年)
在亚美尼亚生活了18年后，我搬到了英国，在剑桥大学学习。以下是我注意到的情况。
-他们认为生活在发达国家意味着你自动富有。
这显然是错误的。在剑桥生活的头几个星期，我看到的无家可归者比我在亚美尼亚18年看到的都要多。
-他们夸大了发达国家的生活条件。
他们听说邻居的儿子在美国月薪5000美元，就认为他拥有世界上的财富。他们忘记说明的是：
1.税收：这意味着在5000美元中，你可能只剩下3500美元。
2.价格：在亚美尼亚，你可以在咖啡馆里用低至2美元的价格吃到高质量的健康食品，而这个数字在发达国家是超过6美元的。在埃里温市中心，一个完整的两室公寓的租金是400美元左右。在伦敦，这可能至少是四倍以上。
如果你把这些都算上，5000美元并不算多。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
In theory, this shouldn’t be the case since both countries have a standard 9–5 workdays. However, there are many jobs in Armenia which are unnecessary and are a waste of salary and time. Furthermore, many hours are wasted drinking coffee and gossiping about who did what.
In contrast, people in developed countries do more work in the 8 hours of their workday. Sure, some people waste time. Sure some jobs are unnecessary. But the extent is far, far less than in Armenia.
·They think people in developed countries are less educated.
There are many in Armenia with fancy degrees from local universities. The number of people with such degrees but close-to-zero knowledge and skills is appalling. Many of these people work in government.
In my opinion, the number one reason why there is massive unemployment in developing countries is the lack of a skilled workforce.
People here do not realize this. They ignorantly believe that their four-years waste of doing nothing in regards to their careers and getting a piece of paper from a University will make them competitive in the market in developing countries.
It won’t.
-他们没有意识到，发达国家的人工作更多。
从理论上讲，情况不应该是这样的，因为两个国家都有标准的朝九晚五的工作日。然而，在亚美尼亚，有许多工作是不必要的，是对工资和时间的浪费。此外，许多时间被浪费在喝咖啡和八卦谁做了什么上。
相比之下，发达国家的人在工作日的8小时内做了更多的工作。当然，有些人浪费时间。当然也有些工作是不必要的。但其程度远远低于亚美尼亚的情况。
-他们认为发达国家的人受教育程度低。
在亚美尼亚，有很多人拥有当地大学的花哨学位。拥有这种学位但知识和技能几乎为零的人的数量令人震惊。这些人中有许多人在政府工作。
在我看来，发展中国家出现大规模失业的首要原因是缺乏熟练的劳动力。
这里的人并没有意识到这一点。他们无知地认为，他们浪费了四年时间，在事业上无所作为，仅凭从大学拿到的一纸文凭，就能使他们在发展中国家的市场上具有竞争力。
这是不可能的。
There is significantly less corruption than in developing countries but saying there is absolutely none in developed countries is incorrect. People take bribes when the benefits — money — trump the costs — the risk of getting caught, its consequences and doing an act which you possibly deem unethical.
In developing countries, the costs are low and that’s why corruption happens so often. In developed countries, risks are much greater and hence the required money to do a corrupt act is more. Corruption happens more rarely and at higher scales.
·They think immigrating to a developed country is going to solve their problems.
It won’t.
If you are unemployed in a developing country, it’s likely because you don’t have skills. Immigrating to a developed country is not going to help you learn more skills.
-他们认为没有腐败，法律是完美的。
与发展中国家相比，腐败现象明显减少，但说发达国家绝对没有腐败现象是不正确的。当利益--金钱--胜过成本--被抓的风险、后果和做出你可能认为不道德的行为时，人们就会接受贿赂。
在发展中国家，成本很低，这就是为什么腐败经常发生。在发达国家，风险要大得多，因此从事腐败行为所需的资金也更多。腐败发生得更少，规模也更大。
-他们认为移民到发达国家就能解决他们的问题。
这是不可能的。
如果你在一个发展中国家失业，很可能是因为你没有技能。移民到发达国家并不能帮助你学习更多的技能。
It is a good piece of writing. I totally agree with you. School should be a place to teach skills for survival, not a place for shiny, useless degrees.
这是篇好文章。我完全同意你的观点。学校应该是一个教授生存技能的地方，而不是一个获得闪亮、无用学位的地方。
I thought you were describing Turkey:)
I agree with all your points except the last one. I would modify it as follows: If you migrate to a developed country, some troubles will really be over. But then, you will start to face troubles you never even knew existed like crime, homelessness, loneliness, political correctness, health care costs, insurance costs, sky high taxes etc.
我以为你是在描述土耳其:)
我同意你所有的观点，除了最后一点。我想把它修改如下。如果你移居到一个发达国家，一些麻烦就会真正结束。但随后，你将开始面对你以前甚至不知道其存在的麻烦，如犯罪、无家可归、孤独、政治正确性、医疗费用、保险费用、天价税收等等。
Except for health care and some insurances as they are paid by the high taxes. Crime well depends what undeveloped country you compare with. And much of the crimes done here are done by immigrants and directed at other immigrants.
除了医疗保健和一些保险，因为它们是由高税收支付的。犯罪取决于你与哪个不发达国家相比。而这里的很多犯罪行为都是移民所为，并针对其他移民。
Also the reporting of crimes can vary, in the UK, if you have something stolen or (e.g. a car) severely damaged and it was insured, you have to report this to police to pursue your insurance claim. Thus it's possible that crime figures look worse than you might see elsewhere.
在英国，如果你的东西被盗或（如汽车）被严重损坏，而它又有保险，你必须向警方报告，以寻求保险索赔。因此，有可能犯罪数字看起来比你在其他地方看到的要糟糕。
‘crime, homelessness, loneliness, political correctness, health care costs, insurance costs, sky high taxes’ All of these can also exist in developing countries, particularly as their regimes are often undemocratic and corrupt. Don't understand why you mention ‘political correctness’ as something bad in developed countries?
“犯罪、无家可归、孤独、政治正确、医疗费用、保险费用、天价税款”
所有这些在发展中国家也可能存在，尤其是他们的政权往往是不民主和腐败的。我不明白为什么你提到'政治正确'是属于发达国家的不好东西？
Because you have to watch what you say, even among friends. The situation is very similar to going from a free-speech country to another one where it is restrained. Except, the prosecutors are private rather than public.
因为你必须时刻注意你所说的话，即使在朋友之间。这种情况非常类似于从一个言论自由的国家到另一个言论自由受到限制的国家。除此之外，检举一般是私下而不是公开进行的。
I was shocked as well at the number of homeless and poor people in Cambridge. You wouldn't expect that from a city with this name. But hey, welcome to the UK social security.
(Oh, and let's not start about the NHS. My Russian mates couldn't believe it either.)
我也对剑桥的无家可归者和穷人的数量感到震惊。你不会想到拥有这个名字的城市会是这样。但是，嘿，欢迎加入英国的社会保障。
(哦，我们先不说NHS（英国国民健康保险制度）的事。连我的俄罗斯朋友们也不敢相信）。
NHS was a shock once my gf had to face an emergency situation. They couldn't send an ambulance for her when she was in effect paralyzed and lying on the floor…for nearly 8 hrs. Emergency 999 transferred her to NHS in the middle of the night and NHS sent a medic in a taxi early morning without a stretcher to bring her down from 3rd floor.
What followed was even worse. She had her lower back dysfunctional for a few days due to extremely brutal pain and she had to suffer for really long.
upxe : My gf just got approved for the surgery after 17 months of process… and got it done last week. It was about putting in a cushioning gel between the discs through a syringe into the backbone (L4-L5). She showed up at the appointment time 9:30am for an 11am surgery as was requested. She had to be empty stomach and so she was. The surgery happened at 4:30pm only after she got tears in her eyes sitting without food and water on a chair in the waiting area for 6 hours so they started with anaesthetics at 3:30pm… The reception kept treating her like they don’t owe her any answer let alone apology.
有一次，当我的女朋友不得不面对一个紧急情况时，NHS对此的表现令人感到震惊。当她实际上已经失去意识并躺在地板上时，他们无法为她派出救护车......直到将近8个小时之后。999急救中心在半夜才决定把她转移到NHS，NHS在清晨派了一名医生坐着出租车过来，然后把她从三楼抬下来，过程中没有担架。
随之而来的情况更糟。由于极度剧烈的疼痛，她的腰部功能失调了几天，她不得不忍受很长时间。
更新：我的女友在经历了17个月的过程后，刚刚获得了手术的批准......并于上周完成了手术。这是在椎间盘之间通过注射器将缓冲凝胶注入背骨（L4-L5）。她在预约时间上午9:30出现，因为按照要求是在上午11点进行手术。要求还说必须是空腹，所以她什么也没吃。结果手术直到下午4:30才开始进行，这还是因为她已经在等待区的椅子上不吃不喝坐了6个小时，眼泪都流出来了，他们才不得不在下午3:30开始打麻药......接待人员一直就那么不咸不淡地对待她，好像他们不欠她任何答案，更别说道歉了。
That’s just… wow. I’m out of words. It staggers the mind. Are these NHS bureaucrats even people at all? I feel sorry for what your girlfriend had to go through.
这真是......哇。我已经无话可说了。这些NHS的官僚们到底是不是人？我为你的女朋友所经历的一切感到难过。
The reason that this happens is that the NHS is short of funds so there are not enough beds to take trauma patients from the ambulances. Those patients remain in the ambulances, parked outside the hospital door. Now those ambulances are unable to be used to bring other sick people to the hospital.
Suyash, I feel sorry for what happened to your girlfriend but that is the main reason for why it happened. Generally, the NHS provides very good quality health care for a relatively low cost. It saved my life when I suffered from a massive brain tumour recently.
发生这种情况的原因是，国家医疗服务体系缺乏资金，所以没有足够的床位来接收救护车上的创伤病人。这些病人一直留在救护车里，停在医院门外。于是这些救护车无法被用来将其他病人送到医院。
Suyash，我对你女朋友的遭遇感到遗憾，但这是发生这种情况的主要原因。一般来说，NHS以相对较低的费用提供质量非常好的医疗服务。最近我患了巨大的脑瘤，它救了我的命。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
People who live in u.k. think NHS is the best. That is because those people never went to hospital in Spain or anywhere. In Lithuania I saw doctor. 1 week later I saw surgeon. 6 days later operation.
住在英国的人认为NHS是最好的。那是因为这些人从未在西班牙或任何地方去过医院。在立陶宛，我去看医生。1周后，我看了外科医生。6天后就进行了手术。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
They are “homeless" through their choice. Spending the rent money paid to them by the local council instead of passing the money on to the landlord and spending it on drugs and drink makes for the situation.
他们因自己的选择而"无家可归"。他们把当地政府支付给他们的房租钱花掉，而不是把钱转给房东，并把钱花在毒品和酗酒上，从而造成了这种情况。
I have seen more homeless people in the first few weeks living in Cambridge than in my entire life in Armenia.
I've recently visited Cambridge several times and it's true there are an awful lot of people sleeping rough - more, I think, than almost anywhere else in the UK. There's a logic behind this because the rough sleepers are looking for money from all the rich visitors. I'm not denying for a moment that's its awful and shaming for us how many rough sleepers there are. I'm just saying that Cambridge certainly isn't representative. What you're seeing is a reflection of just how many tourists there are concentrated in a comparatively small area.
“在剑桥生活的前几周，我看到的无家可归者比我在亚美尼亚的整个生活中看到的还要多。”
我最近去了剑桥几次，确实有很多人在露宿，我认为几乎比英国其他地方都要多。这背后有一个逻辑，因为露宿者正在从所有富有的游客那里寻求钱。我一点也不否认，有这么多的露宿者对我们来说是可怕和可耻的。我只是说，剑桥肯定不具有代表性。你所看到的只是反映了有多少游客集中在一个相对较小的区域。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
If that were the reason, how many homeless people would be in Venice, Florence or Paris? Compared to many other places Cambridge is not such a tourist attraction.
如果是这个原因，威尼斯、佛罗伦萨或巴黎会有多少无家可归的人？与其他许多地方相比，剑桥算不上什么热门旅游景点。
A quality meal in a restaurant for $6? It’s rarely under 10, and easily up to $15 for a basic dinner here in the US! Not including tbe tax and the 15–20% tip if you have a server who brings drinks to your table.
6美元就能在餐厅吃到高质量的饭菜？在美国，很少有低于10美元的，最基本的晚餐很容易达到15美元。这还不包括税和15-20%的小费，如果有服务员把饮料送到你的桌子上的话。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Spot on analysis. I am still in contact with many people in Russia, and have traveled to a number of developing countries and talked to people. Many of them hold the beliefs that you outlined. Maybe it’s not universal but very common.
分析得很到位。我仍然与俄罗斯的许多人保持着联系，并曾到一些发展中国家旅行，与人们交谈。他们中的许多人持有你所概述的信念。也许不是所有人都这么想，但非常普遍。
Thanks man. How I which all Nigerians would read and believe this. You hit the nail on the head.
谢谢你，伙计。我多么希望所有尼日利亚人都能读到并相信这一点。你一针见血地指出了问题所在。
>>If you are unemployed in a developing country, it’s likely because you don’t have skills. Immigrating to a developed country is not going to help you learn more skills.
So why do so many people do it? Why did so many people from eastern Europe move to the UK? Are they all really taking a hit in quality of life? Many moved with good education (I can’t comment on skills) and were willing to complete for jobs that were below their level of education. Why are so many Indians moving to the USA? I worked for a large US tech company that had offices in India, which for Indian standards were very well paid, yet each year thousands of the employees from the Indian office applied for a transfer to the US office.
Otherwise, I think your answer rings true. I think there is some “currency conversion factor” that somehow gets lost when you compare the cost of living in two different countries. I spent 4.5 years in the US, and on paper, if you take into account the wages, tax and costs, I should have been so much better off in the US, but in reality, I wasn’t.
I also have relatives in Slovenia, and on paper, they are a lot less well off than us. For instance, they would never be able to afford a holiday in the US, but inside their country, they have a very good standard of living.
>>如果你在一个发展中国家失业，很可能是因为你没有技能。移民到一个发达国家并不能帮助你学习更多的技能。
那么，为什么有那么多人这么做？为什么这么多来自东欧的人搬到英国？他们真的都在生活质量上受到了打击吗？许多人是带着良好的教育（我无法评论是否有技能）移居的，并且愿意去做那些低于他们教育水平的工作。为什么有这么多印度人搬到美国？我曾在一家大型美国科技公司工作，该公司明明在印度设有办事处，以印度人的标准来说，这些办事处的工资非常高，然而每年都有成千上万的印度办事处的员工申请调到美国办事处。
除此之外，我认为你的答案是正确的。我认为，当你比较两个不同国家的生活成本时，有一些 "货币转换因素 "不知不觉地被忽略了。我在美国呆了4.5年，从纸面上看，如果你考虑到工资、税收和成本，我在美国的生活应该好得多，但实际上，我没有。
我在斯洛文尼亚也有亲戚，从纸面上看，他们的生活比我们差很多。例如，他们永远无法负担在美国的假期，但在他们的国家内，他们有非常好的生活水平。
I am not saying quality of life will be worse but if you are unemployed in a developing country then you are unlikely to have a high-paying job in a developed one.
我不是说生活质量会变差，但如果你在发展中国家失业，那么你就不可能在发达国家有一份高薪工作。
“the Indian office applied for a transfer to the US office”
I had a coworker exactly like that. Absolutely no disrespect to our Indian friends. I did learn a lot from them. Unfortunately this particular guy had no clue. Even on paper he was Senior Engineer and stuff. Guy really knew how to handle bosses though. As soon as he got in he found a spot in front of the manager and was sitting and chatting with his wife all day long. You could see it from the back. He got promoted in no time. Manager thought he is working hard. :)
This kid is a very nice guy socially though. I do not have any problems with him at the end.
"从印度办事处申请调到美国办事处"
我有一个同事正是如此。绝对不是对我们的印度朋友不敬。我确实从他们那里学到了很多东西。不幸的是，这个家伙这些一无所知。即使在纸面上他是个高级工程师之类的。不过这家伙真的知道如何应付老板。他一进来就在经理面前找了个位置，整天和他的妻子坐在一起聊天。你从后面就可以看到。他很快就得到了晋升。经理认为他在努力工作。）
不过这孩子在社会上是个非常好的人。我和他没有任何问题。
Is it really an Indian thing though? Office politics and boot licking employees are literally a theme of Dilbert Comics. They are pervasive across all companies of the world.
这真的是印度特有的事情吗？办公室政治和拍马屁的员工简直是《呆伯特》漫画的主题嘛。它们普遍存在于世界上的所有公司。
There are two types of corruption. The smart one and the crude one. In developing countries, crude corruption happens everywhere ie. getting permit needs you to bribe the officials. It’s easy to spot and not very smart. In the west, the smart corruption is endemic. In fact it is entirely legal and institutionalized. Only well connected people or people with “good pedigree” can do it. A lot of corruption is hidden behind legally enshrined remuneration, “controlled” contracts and procurement policies, lobbying money and consultancy fees. None is more or less corrupt than the other. The west just like to spin it like they are better.
世界上有两种类型的腐败。一种是聪明的，另一种是粗暴的。在发展中国家，粗暴的腐败随处可见，例如，获得许可证需要贿赂官员。这很容易被发现，而且不是很聪明。在西方，聪明的腐败是普遍存在的。事实上，它是完全合法和制度化的。只有关系好的人或有"良好血统"的人可以这样做。很多腐败都隐藏在法律规定的报酬、"受控"的合同和采购政策、游说费和咨询费背后。没有哪种腐败比其他的更多或更少。西方人只是喜欢把它说成是他们更好。
Unemployment of the educated is caused by a lack of opportunities caused by a lack of economic capacity or infrastructure. If a country does not have the roads and such to get product to markets on time, nobody is going to put a company there. Nobody.
受过教育的人的失业是由于缺乏经济能力或基础设施而导致的机会不足。如果一个国家没有道路之类的东西，不能及时将产品送到市场，就没有人会在那里设立公司。没有人。
“The number of people with…close-to-zero knowledge and skills is appalling. Many of these people work in government.”
This is not exclusive to developing countries. Every single County and Borough Council in the UK seems to exclusively hire idiots. I don’t know where they find them from, but they seem to go out of their way to find the least able and most useless of our citizens to make their employees.
"拥有......接近零知识和技能的人的数量令人震惊。其中许多人在政府工作"。
这并不是发展中国家的专利。英国的每一个郡和区议会似乎都只雇用白痴。我不知道他们是从哪里找到这些人的，但他们似乎不遗余力地寻找我们公民中最没有能力和最无用的人作为他们的雇员。
You are wrong on many points.
People don’t say you are automatically rich in developed countries. But percentage-wise you are rich. Even doing a cleaner job in a developed country puts you in a better position than any cleaner in developing countries.
If you are skilled migrating to a developed country is going to solve many problems. First, you need to define the problems. Money, electricity, water, transport and bureaucracy related issues can be solved easily.
I lived in India and travelled a lot around the world. I have to say food is damn cheap in developing countries. With minimum wage you can almost afford any kind of food in any season. This is not the case in other countries. Some sort of food is super expensive. With a low-level job, no chance you can buy it. In developing countries on average, compared to wages, food, cars, clothes, electric items, electricity bills, education and medical are expensive. Developed countries take care of these through market competition, developed economy, and efficiency.
I am not sure about corruption. But in 19 years, in the UK, I have never needed to pay cash to anyone. There must be a high-level corruption. But most of the issues are resolved by law.
There is a reason why developed countries are called “developed”.
你在很多方面都是错的。
人们并没有说你在发达国家会自动成为富人。但从百分比来看，你确实是富有的。即使在发达国家做一份清洁工的工作，也比发展中国家的清洁工处于更好的地位。
如果你有技术，移民到发达国家就能解决很多问题。首先，你需要定义“问题”。如果是钱、电、水、交通和官僚机构相关的问题，都可以很容易地解决。
我住在印度，并在世界各地旅行了很多。我不得不说，在发展中国家，食物是非常便宜的。只要有最低工资，你几乎可以在任何季节买得起任何种类的食物。在其他国家则不然。有些食物是超级昂贵的。如果是一份低级别的工作，你根本没有机会去尝试。在发展中国家，平均而言，与工资相比，食品、汽车、衣服、电器、电费、教育和医疗都很昂贵。发达国家通过市场竞争、发达的经济和效率来解决这些问题。
我不清楚腐败问题。但在英国的19年里，我从未需要向任何人支付现金。肯定存在高层腐败。但大多数问题都是通过法律解决的。
发达国家被称为 "发达 "是有原因的。
> They do not realize that people in developed countries work more.
Certainly doesn’t feel like it. I’ve been to half of Europe and one thing common for most of it is how everything is always closed, the working hours are ridiculous for everything from shops to entertainment to institutions. 24/7 is non-existant, the only thing you can hope to find open at night is some kebab.
> 他们没有意识到，发达国家的人工作更多。
当然感觉不到。我去过半个欧洲，大部分地方都有一个共同点，那就是所有东西都是关门的，从商店到娱乐场所到官方机构的工作时间都很荒唐。24/7是不存在的，你唯一能希望在晚上找到的东西是一些烤肉串。
I had a teacher who had a doctorate in photography from a country that was developing. Mind you, a doctorate of photography was not something that existed or could be achieved anywhere else at the time. That fancy PhD at the end of her name, got her a position teaching an advanced technical photoshop course in a bachelors program. Less than a week into the semester the majority of her students complained to the director that she was severely unqualified. She was quickly replaced and her continued employment was contingent upon her completion of their associates degree of photography. Turns out her doctoral education from that developing country wasn’t good enough for her to pass the portfolio review to attend their beginners program.
我有一个老师，在一个正在发展的国家获得了摄影博士学位。你要知道，摄影博士在当时并不存在，也不可能在其他地方取得。她名字后面的那个花哨的博士，让她在一个本科生课程中获得了一个教授高级技术PS课程的职位。开学不到一个星期，她的大部分学生就向主任抱怨说她严重不合格。她很快就被替换掉了，而她继续就业的条件是她要完成他们的摄影助理学位。事实证明，她在那个发展中国家接受的博士教育还不足以让她通过作品集审核，去参加他们的初级课程。