欧美观众讨论比亚迪将进入日本市场
China''s BYD is INVADING the JAPANESE Auto Market - RIP Toyota, Honda, Nissan?
译文简介
大部分人都不看好BYD在日本市场的表现，但有不少人提到了蔚来
正文翻译
比亚迪将于2023年1月登陆日本。他们将推出3款不同的电动汽车，对丰田、本田和日
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BYD isn't a joke anymore. At their price point, they make solid EV's that look really good. That being said, I suspect few Japenese will buy them due to the fact that Toyota/Lexus/Honda make excellent cars (exceptional hybrid vehicles which IMO are more attractive than plug-in EVs) and the general population won't buy from brands not from their own country, especially not from China. Korean and Japanese typically support their own brands.
比亚迪不再是个笑话了。在他们的价位，他们电动汽车看起来真的很好。尽管如此，我怀疑很少有日本人会购买它们，因为丰田/雷克萨斯/本田生产出了优秀的汽车(优秀的混合动力汽车，IMO比插电式电动汽车更有吸引力) ，而且普通日本人不会购买非本国品牌的汽车，尤其是中国品牌的汽车。韩国人和日本人通常支持自己的品牌。 48
郑宇
比亚迪公交车已进入日本市场，销售还不错。 14
VWs are selling well in Japan. German, Italian, French and British cars sell better than American.
大众在日本卖得很好.德国、意大利、法国和英国的汽车比美国车卖得好。 9
lmao this gonna fail. Remember how Hyundai recently re-entered the JDM market with Ioniq 5 and Nexo? Few dozen car that was sold and registered was for the embassy/consulate and demo cars. No private sales
估计要凉凉。还记得现代公司最近是如何用Ioniq5和Nexo重新进入JDM市场的吗？出售和记录的几十辆汽车是为大使馆/领事馆和演示用车准备的。不用于私人买卖 5
@郑宇 no they entered korea and selling well. Not Japan.
不，他们在韩国卖的很好，不是日本。 5
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@MC Model Design Works Foreign Luxury cars are pretty popular, but as far as the cheaper-priced vehicles go, the Japanese big 3 pretty much still hold the entire market share
外国豪华车相当受欢迎，但就价格更便宜的车而言，日本三大汽车公司几乎仍占据着整个市场份额 6
Byd makes all of Toyota's EVs，Toyota just changed its Logo
比亚迪代工了丰田所有的电动汽车，丰田只不过更换了logo
@SP Plus Nissans are unreliable af. Most Nissans are designed and made in Europe as well. That one proved as well on the Nissan Leaf being axed for production. Suzuki same crappy cars like Daihatsu.
日产并不可靠。大多数日产汽车也是在欧洲设计和制造的。这一点在日产聆风(Nissan Leaf)被停产时也得到了证明。铃木和大发一样的破车。
雅君墨客
byd公交车遍布全世界
@MC Model Design Works Nissan actually has reliable engines, their bad reputation comes from their shitty CVTS. If they just stopped being cheap and started putting regular 10 speed automatic transmissions in their car, it would certainly help.
Nissan的引擎其实很可靠，他们的坏名声来自他们的劣质 CVTS。如果他们不再用便宜货，而是开始在他们的汽车上安装常规的10速自动变速器，那肯定就不一样了。
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There's very little demand for EV's in Japan because they aren't needed for the time being - gas is still cheap and nobody really cares. Which explains why Honda, Toyota, and Nissan don't have that many EVs out right now. They're releasing more, that is for sure. It's funny how Hyundai and BYD really think there's a HUGE "untapped market" for EV's in Japan, they're in for a surprise. It's going to be Toyota that dictates the popularity of EV's in Japan's market because they're the ones to make the Kei cars and regular consumer cars that suit Japanese tastes.
日本对电动汽车的需求很少，因为目前还不需要——天然气仍然很便宜，而且没有人真正在乎。这就解释了为什么本田、丰田和日产目前没有那么多电动汽车，他们马上要推出更多新能源车型，这是肯定的。有趣的是，现代和比亚迪真的认为电动汽车在日本有一个巨大的“尚未开发的市场”，等待他们的会是一个surprise。决定电动汽车在日本市场的受欢迎程度的是丰田，因为他们才是生产符合日本口味的Kei car（小型车）和常规消费汽车的厂商。 7
that is right. No kei car=no sale for these foreigner mass-market brand
没错。不能生产KEI汽车这些外国大品牌就卖不出去 1
Japan charging infrastructure is bad Toyota wont make a difference
If anyone could popularize EV in Japan it's Tesla with their superchargers opened to everyone
日本的充电基础设施很糟糕，丰田不会有所作为
如果有人能在日本推广电动汽车，那就是特斯拉，他们的充电设施对所有人开放
Byd makes all of Toyota's EVs，Toyota just changed its Logo
比亚迪代工了丰田所有的电动汽车，丰田只不过更换了logo
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Japan has a decent infrastructure. However, EV range is never good enough because of their mountainous regions and roads... it's better to have a kei car.
日本有良好的基础设施。然而，电动汽车行驶空间从来都不够好，因为日本多山且道路崎岖... ... 最好有一辆kei car（小型车）。10
Decent infrastructure? LOL
体面的基础设施？ 哈哈
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I agree with you regarding EVs; they are great for city driving (running errands, delivering pizza, etc.) but they fall short if you do long trips or carry moderate to heavy loads (SUVs and pick-ups). The problem with EVs is weight, that's the enemy. As soon as you put people or stuff they consume power very quickly. Also, the car in itself is really heavy. The best compromise are hybrids and governments should acknowledge that. EVs are very expensive and are out of reach of 80% of the population. Only people in rich countries (G8) will be able to buy them. The rest of the world will keep using internal combustion engines.
我同意你对电动车的看法; 它们适合在城市里开车(通勤、送披萨等等) ，但是如果你长途旅行或者携带大重量的货物(SUV 和皮卡) ，它们就不够用了。电动汽车的问题在于负载，那是主要问题。只要你携带人或东西，他们消耗能源很快。而且，这辆车本身就很重。最好的折衷方案是混合型，政府应该承认这一点。电动汽车非常昂贵，80% 的人负担不起。只有富裕国家(G8)的人才买得起电动车，世界其他地区将继续使用内燃机汽车。 7
The Japanese are an enigma. They are both advanced but also traditional. And at times that traditionalism can make its appearance at the wrong time. I've seen this in the camera world too. Canon, Nikon and Sony create hyper-expensive SLR cameras but often can't match the visual appeal of a simple iPhone pic. It's all in the software and the big 3 Japanese camera makers are hopelessly behind with software. They make good hardware but basically in the stone age when it comes to the software.
Same thing with electric cars. The big 3 Toyota, Honda and Nissan or Mazda make the best ICE cars on the planet but are really behind in electrification. They fell asleep at the wheel and missed the electric revolution started by Tesla.
I think Japanese traditionalism is partially to blame. They're really proud at perfecting something instead of innovating and taking risks. And therein lies an opportunity for the Koreans and now the Chinese. Should be an interesting next couple of decades.
But I still believe and trust in the Japanese manufacturing capabilities. Made in Japan still means something.
日本人是个谜。他们既先进又传统。有时候，传统主义出现在不恰当的时间。我在相机行业里也发现过这一点。佳能(Canon)、尼康(Nikon)和索尼(Sony)都推出了超贵的单反相机，但它们的视觉吸引力往往赶不上一张简单的 iPhone 照片。这都是软件的功劳，而日本三大相机制造商在软件方面已经无可救药地落后了。他们制造了很好的硬件，在软件方面基本处于石器时代。
电动车也一样。丰田、本田、日产或马自达三大汽车公司制造的内燃机汽车是世界上最好的，但在新能源方面却真的落后了。他们在方向盘上睡着了，错过了特斯拉发起的新能源革命。
我认为日本的传统主义是部分原因。他们真的很自豪于完善一些东西，而不是创新和冒险。这对韩国人和中国人来说都是一个机会。接下来的几十年应该会很有趣。
但我仍然相信并信任日本的制造能力。日本制造仍然有价值。 1
The BYD Seal and the Toyota SDN don't have the same platform. I don't think they're sister cars. I think that Toyota has BYD supplying batteries for and manufacturing the bZ SDN for the China market. As for how BYD does in Japan, we'll see. It may just be the kick Toyota, Honda and others need to put out more EVs and sooner, especially if they get a following there.
比亚迪的海豹和丰田的 SDN 没有相同的平台。我觉得它们不是姐妹车。我认为，丰田有比亚迪提供电池来生产bZ SDN供应中国市场。至于比亚迪在日本的表现，我们拭目以待。这可能激励丰田、本田和其他公司需要更快推出更多的电动汽车，特别是如果他们有一个追随者。
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I think Toyota has bought new batteries for their EV cars from BYD , so they have some kind of business alliance
我认为丰田已经从比亚迪购买了新的电动汽车电池，所以他们有某种商业联盟 15
Yes BYD is Toyota's joint venture partner. The CCP has forced foreign automakers to cooperate with Chinese ones if they want to sell their cars on the Chinese market. This resulted in Chinese cars getting a lot better.
是的，比亚迪是丰田的合资伙伴。中国已经强制外国汽车制造商与中国合作，如果他们想在中国市场上销售他们的汽车。这使得中国的汽车变得更好。 7
There are cultural frictions that I will be curious to see play out. This is interesting.
会有一些我很感兴趣的文化摩擦发生，令人期待
They should sell these in the us where people want evs and i think all of these models looks good and if theyre affordable i think theyd sell well
他们应该把这些车卖到美国，那里的人们想要电动汽车，我认为所有这些车型看起来都不错，如果价格合理，我认为它们会卖得很好
It will take time for our Japanese mindset about China and Chinese products to change. Cars, unlike clothing and miscellaneous goods, are the ones that entrust our lives. In this country, Nissan SAKURA will be the core of EV sales expansion for the time being.
我们日本人对中国和中国产品的心态还需要一些时间来改变。汽车，不像衣服和其他杂七杂八的，是托付我们生命的东西。在这个国家，目前日产SAKURA将是电动汽车市场扩张的核心。
If BYD produces for Toyota, then they can say in Japan: Why pay more at Toyota, you can get the same quality cheaper here.....
如果比亚迪为丰田做代工，那么他们在日本可以这样说:为什么花更多的钱买个丰田贴牌货，你可以在这里得到同样质量且更便宜的.....
Interesting news. I wonder if BYD will make strides into the US market? I'm all for the free market and see how successful they would be in North America.
有趣的新闻。我想知道比亚迪是否会进军美国市场?我完全支持自由市场，看看他们在北美会有多成功。 3
I agree with your sentiments regarding electric cars at the moment. They won’t be feasible for mass market consumption until Solid State batteries become reality. The current technology we have now will be redundant in 5 years as Solid State will blow everything out of the water. As for BYD, I don’t think that they will dominate the Japanese brands outside of Honda (who won’t exist in 10 years). However, BYD will certainly become a big manufacturer in a rapid manner (like Hyundai and Kia did). They have the benefit of being a battery manufacturer and tech company. Tesla are going to use their batteries and Toyota have a tie up with them which just shows how highly regarded they are. Don’t be surprised if BYD is a top 10 brand in most major markets in 10-15 years time.
我同意你对电动汽车的看法。在固态电池成为现实之前，它们不会被大众市场接受。我们现在拥有的技术在5年后就会变得毫无用处，因为固态电池技术会把所有东西都炸飞。至于比亚迪，我认为他们不会在除了本田以外的日本品牌面前占据优势地位(本田在10年后将不复存在)。然而，比亚迪肯定会以一种快速的方式成为一个大型制造商(就像现代和起亚那样)。他们有电池制造商和科技公司的优势，特斯拉将使用他们的电池，丰田也与他们有联系，这表明他们是多么受重视。如果比亚迪在10-15年内成为大多数主要市场的前十大品牌，请不要感到惊讶。8
No Honda in ten years? What is the reasoning here.
十年后本田将消失?这样说的理由是什么。5
I agree with most of what you said, but I think Honda will still be the biggest in motorcycles!
我同意你说的大部分，但我认为本田仍将是最大的摩托车公司! 1
I disagree with Honda going away in 10 years. If there's any Japanese company that might be gone in 10 years given their current situation, it's most likely going to be Mitsubishi. Unless they do something about it urgently.
我不认为本田将在10年内消失。就目前看来，如果有任何一家日本公司可能在10年内倒闭，那最有可能是三菱。除非他们采取紧急措施。
I can see people fighting over new gas-powered cars as 2030 closes in.
我可以预见，随着2030年的临近，人们重新争相购买内燃机车
I don’t think BEVs will be mainstream anytime soon. Battery costs are going nowhere but up, and warren Buffett just
Pulled the plug on his stake in BYD. Electric makes sense for some things like lawn equipment and maybe subcompact cars. Not much else.
我认为电动汽车不会那么快成为主流。电池成本一直在上涨，而且巴菲特放弃了在比亚迪的持股。电动对于草坪设备和微型汽车等一些东西来说是有意义的，没什么其他用处 2
You're saying EVs for interstate travel don't make sense, as I watched videos of people doing exactly that. Comment about Nissan, they have a JV venture with a Chinese battery company. Shortages of materials for EVs comes ironically because China is having a big boom in EV demand and sales, and that's sucking up all the chips, batteries and materials that it affects other car companies.
你说电动汽车不能用来跨州旅行，但是我看过人们这样做的视频。至于日产，他们和一家中国电池公司有一家合资企业。具有讽刺意味的是，新能源车原材料短缺之所以发生，是因为中国的新能源车的需求和销售正在大幅增长，这鲸吞了芯片、电池和材料，这影响了所有其他新能源厂商。
It's gonna be tough for China's BYD in Japan. The same reason Samsung phones don't have the "SAMSUNG" name logo on their phones. It won't sale if they know it's from Korea. It's marketed as just "Galaxy". Some don't care but, the typical Japanese tend to be systemically biased because of their history with the two countries. I've only seen 2 Hyundai cars the 6 years I've lived there and one was imported from the States.
中国的比亚迪(BYD)在日本的处境将会很艰难。和三星手机上没有“三星”商标的原因一样。如果他们知道是韩国产的，就卖不出去了。它的商品名只有“Galaxy”。虽然一部分人不关心这些，但是由于他们两个国家的历史，主流的日本人倾向于系统性的歧视韩国制造。我在那里住了6年，只看到过2辆现代汽车，其中一辆是从美国进口的。5
ironicly japan was the agressor and korea the colony. shouldn't korea boycott japan?
despite history seems like anti korea is much bigger in japan than anti japan in korea.
具有讽刺意味的是，日本是侵略者，朝鲜是殖民地。不应该是韩国抵制日本吗?
尽管从历史上看，日本的反韩势力比韩国的反日势力要大得多。1
@Uludak Remember that time Korea banned a ton of Japanese owned shops/company? All those protests which lasted for months? No such thing happened in Japan...
还记得韩国关闭大量日资商店/公司的时候吗?那些抗议持续了几个月?日本没有发生过这样的事情…
Some of China EVs has already can travel over 1000 km on a full charge.
中国的一些电车在满电情况下已经可以行驶超过1000公里。
japan is so small that people don’t go very far. i suspect that is the reason they are not crazy about ev’s.
日本太小了，人们都不怎么出门。我怀疑这就是他们不喜欢电车的原因。
I have been to Tokyo they all live in high rise apartments how will they charge electric vehicles? I am sure they will come up with something good.
我去过东京，他们都住在高层公寓里，他们怎么给电车充电?我相信他们会想出好点子的。 1
basically what am thinking is : the Seal is beautiful the other 2 cars are pretty basic but the prices are excellent and affordable for mainstream buyers
基本上我的想法是:海豹很漂亮，其他两辆车都很一般，但价格很好，对主流消费者来说都负担得起 2
I hope they will be as rare as Japanese cars in Korea and will sell very badly
我希望它们像在韩国的日系车一样稀少，销量惨淡 19
Why?
为什么1
@JayTheSpeaker it profits the ccp
这对中国政府有利 8
郑宇
据说印度用牛粪制造汽车。我希望它能在中国销售 4
@郑宇 What does this have to do with India? The guy you are replying to isn't Indian
这和印度有什么关系?他又不是印度人 1
Would like your take on the Nio vehicles. Arguably the most luxurious EV brand in china right now.
想听听你对蔚来汽车的看法，它可以说是目前中国最豪华的新能源车品牌。
Certainly in the future by some sort of joint venture
最终肯定是在当地成立合资企业
The seal or atto4 is seriously better looking than Ioniq 6.
Byd used to make ugly ugly cars. But their han and tang and atto 3 are starting to look competitive. They have a harrier look to their grill or front end or nose, not sure what to call it. And their porsche lettering looks good too.
海豹比Ioniq 6好看多了。
比亚迪以前生产的车很丑，但他们的“汉唐元”开始显示出竞争力了。它们在车架、前端或鼻子上有一种像鹞一样的外观，不知道该怎么称呼它。他们的保时捷字体看起来也不错 1
That's purely subjective. I don't think the Seal is anywhere near as striking as the Ioniq 6. It looks nice, but safe. Ioniq 6 takes chances and will turn heads.
这是纯粹主观的。我认为海豹远不如Ioniq 6那么引人注目。海豹看起来不错，但平平无奇。Ioniq 6更吸引眼球。 1
Aaaaaan the EV evangelists are in the comments. t hey are like vultures looking for a video about EVs to comment on.
评论区到处都是电动汽车的传教士。他们就像秃鹫一样回复每一天关于新能源车的评论。4
On principle, I avoid Chinese made products wherever possible. I would never buy a Chinese car, no matter how good it might be
原则上，只要有可能，我都会避开中国制造的产品。我永远不会买中国车，不管它有多好19
Impossible.
别异想天开了，不可能的 2
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You may have to cover more BYDs in the future.. It is true that this company is growing so rapidly. They are starting to expand in Europe, Australia and now Japan? Other notable and very interesting Chinese car makers are Geely who owns Volvo and lots of brands under like Lynk & Co., Zeeker, Geometry, of xourse Volvo and Polestar and newly launched RADAR.. and Nio another BEV maker in China
未来你可能需要涉及更多的BYD新能源车 ..这家公司确实发展得很快。他们开始在欧洲、澳大利亚和日本扩张市场。其他值得注意的并且非常有趣的中国厂商例如是吉利，它拥有沃尔沃以及领克、极氪、几何等众多品牌，当然还有沃尔沃和极星，以及新推出的RADAR..以及中国另一家纯电动汽车制造商蔚来汽车
My country loving, super patriotic chinese friends ( 4 of them ) all bought from BYD at the same time in 2020 in Shanghai. Have all gone back to European cars now. Although I have never driven BYD before, I think their actions gives me a rough idea of the quality of BYD and other chinese car brands. Great wall did so bad in NZ with endless problems and complaints. Haval under the same company has improved, however they're still nowhere near the European quality or Japanese reliability.
我几个很爱国的中国朋友(4个)在2020年同一时间在上海购买了比亚迪，现在重新开起了欧洲车。虽然我自己从来没有开过比亚迪，但我认为他们的行为让我对比亚迪和其他中国汽车品牌的质量有了一个粗略的了解。长城在新西兰的表现很糟糕，有无尽的问题和投诉。同一家公司旗下的哈弗已经改进了很多，但是它们的质量仍然远不及欧洲车或日本车可靠。 2
Went back to European cars? Ice cars with 15000 USD plate fee? I doubt it.. I see a lot more ditching ice for byd... Vs the other way around..
回到欧洲车?15000美元车牌费的ice car?我怀疑你的评论的真实性. .我看到的是更多的人放弃了ice car转向比亚迪……而不是反过来… 2
@r s I think the correct train of thought would be if their next purchase will still be BYD. I can sell my Lexus ES and go try out BYD for myself. But that doesn’t mean I’ll stick with it or that BYD is better than Lexus. Also, if you’re a Chinese, you know just as much as I that Chinese love expensive German cars because it raises their social status.
@r s我认为如果他们的下一辆车仍然会选择比亚迪，那么我可以卖掉我的雷克萨斯ES，试试比亚迪。但这并不意味着我会坚持下去，也不意味着比亚迪比雷克萨斯更好。另外，如果你是中国人，你和我一样清楚中国人喜欢昂贵的德国车，因为它可以提高他们的社会地位。
I've heard nothing but problems with BYD cars from people I know. Yes, they make good batteries but the cars themselves fall apart like most things made in China.
我只从我认识的人那里听说过比亚迪汽车的问题。是的，他们生产的电池很好，但汽车本身就像大多数中国制造的东西一样会散架。 3
@Greedestroys Everything "Chinese love expensive German car"... Lol this happened around the world and not just car, it called branded.
Chinese cars are just starting, so their brand are not as famous yet...
“中国人喜欢昂贵的德国车”…哈哈，这种事发生在世界各地，不只是汽车，更多是因为品牌。
中国汽车才刚刚起步，所以他们的品牌还没有那么出名…1
@Greedestroys Everything German cars? Depends on if you drive an AMG or a VW golf. Dude... Maybe their next car will be an nio. Who knows... So your idea of quality of Chinese brands may not be right. That was my point. Anyway... Enough dumb people who claim Chinese can't build quality stuff probably never have anything of quality in their lives..
德国车?这取决于你开的是AMG还是大众高尔夫。朋友……也许他们的下一辆车会是蔚来，谁又能肯定呢……所以你对中国品牌质量的看法可能不正确，这就是我的观点。无论如何……有足够多的愚蠢的人声称中国人造不出高质量的东西，可能他们的生活中从来就没有高质量的东西。
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Have you use any product from China bro….?
你用过中国的产品吗，兄弟....?1
Of course..who doesnt
当然,谁没用过
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
These Chinese autos are good quality, and offered at an amazing price. They will take over like Japan did in the 70s. If anyone wondered how china did this, you can thank General Motors. They sold out in 2008 after the US government bailed them out, got in joint ventures with Chinese Communist Party and shared intellectual property.
这些中国汽车质量好，价格也很好。他们会像日本在70年代那样接管汽车行业。如果有人想知道中国是如何做到这一点的，你应该感谢通用汽车。2008年，在美国政府的帮助下，他们卖掉了公司，与中国政府成立了合资企业，并共享了知识产权。
This is the real reason Japanese automakers fear electric. Gas engines are hard to design. Electric reduces cars to commodity products. Their competitive advantage would be destroyed. Not that electric is perfect or great either.
这是日本汽车制造商害怕电动汽车的真正原因。汽车发动机很难设计，电动汽车使汽车沦为大众产品，他们的竞争优势将被摧毁。我并不是说电是完美或伟大的。 5
People who buy Toyota, Honda etc have their priorities on reliability and better build cars, so if BYD becomes international brand, people who buy hyundai, Kia etc will cross shop with Chinese cars more than people who buy Japanese or German cars.
购买丰田、本田等汽车的人只会考虑更可靠质量更好的品牌，所以如果比亚迪成为国际品牌，购买现代、起亚等汽车的人才是中国汽车的潜在客户，而不是购买日本或德国汽车的人。
Interesting. Generally big companies are slow to change and adopt new changes. Good on BYD. Kind of ironic they are going to big into EV's when China is one of the biggest polluters in the world. Hyundai also getting in early with the Iconic 5 and the 6...
有趣。一般来说，大公司做出改变和接受新变化的速度较慢。比亚迪做的很好，有点讽刺的是，当中国是世界上最大的污染国之一时，他们却要大举进军电动车领域。现代汽车也早早地推出了Iconic5和6……
Honesly I'm pretty disturbed by this move. Design-wise these vehicles are already iffy, then there's the QC, in-car software and such. Even the Koreans did a better job in this regard, let alone the localized system software which at least gives some confidence. The Japanese really need to make up for the lost time, to prevent inferior (and doubtful) brands from even entering their market......
老实说，我这个举动感到很不安。这些车在设计方面已经不太可靠，还有质检、车载软件等等方面。就算是韩国人在这方面也比BYD做得更好，更不用说车载系统本地化还有一点路要走，这就使得BYD进军日本得可能变得更加渺茫。日本人真的需要弥补失去的机会，防止劣质(和可疑)品牌进入他们的市场...... 2
4天
考虑到电动汽车只占日本电动汽车销量的1%左右，而丰田电动汽车即将上市，我认为日本品牌没有什么可担心的。 1
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