世界这么大，为什么第一个文明是在埃及和美索不达米亚出现的？
Out of all options in the world, why did the first civilization emerge from Egypt and Mesopotamia?
译文简介
当你试图研究某些词的含义时，你会发现有些词是用来表示存在的/真实的事物，而有些词是用来表达社会对所见所闻的理解。
正文翻译
Out of all options in the world, why did the first civilization emerge from Egypt and Mesopotamia?
世界这么大，为什么第一个文明是在埃及和美索不达米亚出现的？
世界这么大，为什么第一个文明是在埃及和美索不达米亚出现的？
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A Student of the indigenous Black AfricanMay 2
When you try to investigate the meaning of certain words, you realize that some are used to denote existing/real things whereas some are used to convery soceity`s understanding of what is seen and heard.
``Eye``: Denotes an existing, real obxt.
``Civilization``: A word used to denote a certain kind of social organization.
So before you claim Egypt and Mesopotamia as a civilization, and claim that they are the first civilization, you have to understand what kind of social organization civilization stands for.
当你试图研究某些词的含义时，你会发现有些词是用来表示存在的/真实的事物，而有些词是用来表达社会对所见所闻的理解。
“眼睛”：表示一个存在的、真实的物体。
“文明”：一个用来表示某种社会组织的词。
因此，在你声称埃及和美索不达米亚是一种文明，并声称他们是第一个文明之前，你必须了解文明代表了什么样的社会组织。
Civilization: is a construct used to denote certain social structures that often share the following features.
1)Food surplus: Is a condition in which a society produces more food than its members can consume. If there is no food surplus, every person’s efforts within a social structure (tribe, clan etc…) is directed towards producing food. Societal structures that does not achieve food surplus (hunter gatherers, nomads etc…) are uncivilized societies.
Food surplus can only be achieved in sedentary societies i.e. societies that practice farming.
2)Occupational diversification: This happens because some people do not have to dedicate all their time in activities that have direct connection to food production. When a society reaches the threshold of food surplus, some individuals have time to dedicate their attention to other activities.
3)Settled and large population: I already stated that a farming activity is a prerequisite for civilization. When people become farmers, they do not have to move from one place to another in search of food. They build their settlements near the farming area.
A farming society also tends to get large because is is the only social structure that achieves food surplus. Whenever a society achieves food surplus, less people die of hunger. There are more chances of population increase.
文明
文明：是一个用来表示某些社会结构的构架，这些社会结构往往具有以下特点。
1)粮食过剩：是指一个社会生产的粮食多于其成员能够消费的状况。如果没有粮食盈余，社会结构（部落、宗族等）中每个人的努力就都只能是为了生产粮食。不能实现粮食盈余的社会结构（狩猎采集者、游牧者等）是不文明的社会。
粮食过剩只能在定居社会中实现，即从事农业的社会。
2）职业多样化：这是因为有些人不必把所有的时间都用于与粮食生产有直接关系的活动上。当一个社会达到粮食过剩的门槛时，一些人就有时间把注意力放在其他活动上。
3）定居和大量人口：我已经说过，农耕活动是文明的先决条件。当人们成为农民时，他们不必从一个地方搬到另一个地方去寻找食物。他们在农耕区附近建立自己的定居点。
一个农业社会也倾向于越来越大，因为它是唯一能实现粮食过剩的社会结构。每当一个社会实现了粮食过剩，死于饥饿的人就会减少。人口增长的机会也更多。
We see that the surplus of an agricultural society is often taken not by members of the society, but by members of a non-agricultural society. In the early periods of Eurasian history, we see that farming societies did not have the same vigor and capacity required to defend their settlements as the nomadic ones. That is why the first speakers of the world`s two very dominant language families are pastoral communities. The first Semites were pastoralists from Africa before they invaded Mesopotamia. Similarly, the first Indo-Europeans were pastoralists from the Eurasian steppe. Both people became the ruling elites of settled civilizations which existed before them and managed to spread their language.
5)Culture: Two of the most dominant cultural expressions of civilization are writing and architecture. Both are achieved due to occupational diversification. Architectural complexity, in the minds of many, has a special association with civilized culture. Writing is a physical manifestation of the ``constructive`` nature in which our minds work. Invention of writing facilitates the invention of other constructs since it constructs are invented from other constructs.
Eurocentrism
Many people think that Egypt and Mesopotamia are the first civilization on earth because both civilizations are progenitors of Caucasian (European/Middle eastern civilization). The Semites would borrow a lot from from the first Mesopotamian people. The Greeks would borrow most of their civilization from the Semites. What is started in Egypt and Mesopotamia would spread all over the Mediterrenean, and ends up in Europe.
However, this Caucsaian civilization continuum was no different to other civilizations by its degree of complexity and its achievements. Consider these pictures below:
(Timbuktu, Mali)
(Tenochtitlan, Mexico)
(Angkor Wat, Cambodia)
4）社会分层：只要有闲置的东西，你就会看到野心勃勃的人争相控制它。一个非农业社会在本质上是平等的，每个人都是生活的斗士，谁能最大限度地提高该部落的生存能力，谁就有最大的机会成为该部落的领袖。然而，在一个文明社会中，得到主导权的是那些有能力控制这些剩余资源的人。
我们看到，一个农业社会的剩余资源往往不是被该社会的成员拿走，而是被非农业社会的成员拿走。在欧亚历史的早期，我们看到农业社会并没有像游牧社会那样拥有保卫其定居点所需的活力和能力。这就是为什么世界上两个非常主要的语言家族的第一批使用者是牧民群体。第一批闪族人在入侵美索不达米亚之前是来自非洲的牧民。同样地，第一批印欧人也是来自欧亚草原的牧民。这两者都成为了在他们之前就存在的定居文明里的统治精英，并设法传播他们的语言。
5）文化：文明的两个最主要的文化表现形式是文字和建筑。两者都是由于职业的多样化而实现的。在许多人的心目中，建筑的复杂性与文明文化有着特殊的联系。书写是我们思想工作的"建构性"的物理表现。书写的发明促进了其他构造的发明。
欧洲中心主义
许多人认为埃及和美索不达米亚是地球上的第一个文明，因为这两个文明都是高加索（欧洲/中东文明）的祖先。闪族人会从最早的美索不达米亚人那里借鉴很多东西。希腊人则从闪族人那里借用他们的大部分文明。始于埃及和美索不达米亚的文明将传播到整个地中海地区，并终于欧洲。
然而，这个高加索文明的连续体在其复杂程度和成就上与其他文明并无不同。请看下面这些图片：
(马里，廷巴克图)
(墨西哥，特诺奇蒂特兰)
(柬埔寨，吴哥窟)
The answer to your question
We do not have sufficient evidence to claim that the first civlilizations in the world are Egypt and Mesopotamia. However, we can be certain that the Caucasian civilization arose from the two civilizations, Thus, claiming that Egypt and Mesopotamia are the first civilization is a Caucasian narrative not just because there is sufficient evidence to prove it, but also because the legacy of the two civilizations is evident in the Western world.
I know that traditional histriography of world history gives emphasis to certain non-Caucasian civilizations like India`s Indus valley civilization and the Chinese civilization. India had sufficient interaction with the Caucasian world order in the past. Similarly, the magnitude of Chinese civilization is difficult to ignore.
To conclude, civilization often started independently in many places of the world. There are many dead civilizations waiting to be excavated and studied, and living civilizations that are purposefully ignored. Some of these civilizations predate Egypt and Mesopotamia by many years.
Most of these civilizations are found in Black Africa. If you want to learn more about these Black African civilizations on this platform, please follow these two spaces:
Ancient Africa
Let`s discuss Ancient and Medi Africa
对你问题的回答
我们没有足够的证据来声称世界上最早的文明是埃及和美索不达米亚。然而，我们可以肯定的是，高加索文明是从这两个文明中产生的。因此，声称埃及和美索不达米亚是第一个文明是高加索人的叙述，不仅仅是因为有足够的证据来证明，而且还因为这两个文明的遗产在西方世界很明显。
我知道，世界历史的传统史学强调某些非高加索文明，如印度的印度河流域文明和中国文明。印度在过去与高加索的世界秩序有充分的互动。同样，中国文明的规模也很难被忽视。
总而言之，文明往往是在世界许多地方独立开始的。有许多死去的文明等待着被挖掘和研究，而活着的文明则被故意忽略。其中一些文明比埃及和美索不达米亚要早很多年。
这些文明大多在黑非洲发现。如果你想在这个平台上了解更多关于这些黑非洲文明，请关注这两个板块：
古代非洲
让我们讨论古代和中世纪的非洲
Unemployed by grace of pension and social security9mo
Egypt and Mesopotamia are merely the oldest civilizations that left written records.
Civilization began in Syria as long before Egypt and Mesopotamia as Egypt and Mesopotamia are before us.
The first cities, Jericho, Damascus, Byblos, date to 9000 BC. That's six thousand years before civilization in Egypt and Mesopotamia.
Think of the entire history of the world from Egypt and Mesopotamia until now. That much history and more exists before Egypt and Mesopotamia that we don't know anything about because they left no written records.
埃及和美索不达米亚只是留下书面记录的最古老文明。
文明早在埃及和美索不达米亚之前就在叙利亚开始了，它们在埃及和美索不达米亚之前，就像埃及和美索不达米亚在我们之前一样。
第一批城市，耶利哥、大马士革、比布鲁斯，可以追溯到公元前9000年。这比埃及和美索不达米亚的文明早了六千年。
想想从埃及和美索不达米亚到现在的整个世界历史。在埃及和美索不达米亚之前存在着这么多的历史和更多的历史，我们对此一无所知，因为他们没有留下书面记录。
Syria is in Mesopotamia.
叙利亚也是美索不达米亚。
Gordon Clason
Actually most of Syria, and specifically Damascus, Byblos and Aleppo, are west of the Euphrates.
事实上，叙利亚大部分地区，特别是大马士革、比布鲁斯和阿勒颇，都在幼发拉底河以西。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I’m aware. I did just post a map.
Defining Mesopotamia as the land between the two rivers seems unusually narrow. I realise that is the literal translation, but I have generally seen it defined as the entire of the Euphrates-Tigris drainage basin… though I’m sure some people would equally argue that that’s too broad a definition.
I’d include Aleppo in Mesopotamia. Damascus I will agree is too far away to be sensibly included in Mesopotamia, and Byblos certainly is, although Byblos is also not in Syria–– it’s in Lebanon.
And indeed, I think the questioner has phrased their question badly and should really be referring to the Fertile Crescent in totalis, which would of course include all these cities; but since they clearly lack knowledge in this area I think they can be forgiven for that.
我知道。我不还发了一张地图吗。
将美索不达米亚定义为两河之间的土地似乎过于狭隘。我知道这是直译，但我对它的定义是整个幼发拉底河-底格里斯河流域......尽管我确信有些人同样会争辩说这个定义太宽。
我将阿勒颇包括在美索不达米亚。我同意大马士革太远了，不可能合理地包括在美索不达米亚，而比布鲁斯肯定是，尽管比布鲁斯也不在叙利亚--它在黎巴嫩。
事实上，我认为提问者的问题措辞不当，他应该用整个新月沃土来提问，这就肯定包括所有这些城市了；但由于他们显然缺乏这方面的知识，我认为可以原谅他们的做法。
I would agree, but I wanted to distinguish between the civilizations of written culture and those who came before them. I would include Jericho, even though that's a ways from Syria proper.
我同意，但我想把书面文化的文明和之前的文明区分开来。我会把杰里科包括在内，尽管那里离叙利亚本土有一段距离。
Rivers among deserts.
Doesn’t it look like a great place to settle down, after a long nomadic desert life?
Everything that was said here about rivers is all true, but then why didn’t the Danube or Oxus produce great cradles of civilisation?
The great combination that is unique for Mesopotamia and Egypt is rivers among deserts.
Many historians suggest that the sharp difference between the fertile lands of the river valleys and the dead deserts caused massive settling of nomads within the valleys to form permanent agricultural communities.
Still, it’s worth noting that some independent civilisations have developed in other conditions as well - in the Andes, or in China for example. But yes, rivers among deserts have possibly been the most effective factor for humans to settle down in masses.
因为“沙漠中的河流”。
在经历了漫长的沙漠游牧生活之后，这难道不像是一个安身立命的好地方吗？
这里所说的关于河流的一切都是对的，但为什么多瑙河或奥克苏斯河没有产生伟大的文明摇篮？
对美索不达米亚和埃及来说，独特的伟大组合是沙漠中的河流。
许多历史学家认为，河谷肥沃的土地和死寂的沙漠之间的巨大差异导致游牧民族在河谷内大量定居，形成永久性的农业社区。
不过，值得注意的是，一些独立的文明也是在其他条件下发展起来的--比如在安第斯山脉，或者在中国。但是，是的，沙漠中的河流可能是人类大规模定居的最有效因素。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
The funky thing is, when the Egyptians were building the Pyramids, there were still mammoth roaming the Earth in some parts of Russia. Also, the area where Egypt is was much greener in those days than the satellite photo suggests. The Sahara has been continuing to grow larger over the past 10,000 years, but there are many records of there being far more wood available in Egypt in those ancient times.
有趣的是，当埃及人建造金字塔的时候，在俄罗斯的一些地方还有猛犸象在地球上游荡。另外，埃及所在的地区在那些日子里比卫星照片上显示的要绿得多。在过去的一万年里，撒哈拉沙漠一直在持续变大，但有许多记录显示，在那些古老的时代，埃及有多得多的木材。
North and Northwest Africa had dense coniferous and broadleaf forests even during medi times which sheltered large forest dwelling species like brown bear, before the ever advancing Sahara combined with the expansion of agriculture swallowed up these forests except in the highest reaches of Atlas.
非洲北部和西北部甚至在中世纪时也有着茂密的针叶林和阔叶林，为棕熊等大型林居物种提供庇护，之后不断推进的撒哈拉沙漠加上农业的扩张吞噬了这些森林，除了阿特拉斯山脉的最高处。
It wasn't that the Sahara was growing, but that people were cutting down the forest to leave open ground for the sands to fill. There's been some effort to replant Cedars in Lebanon, but that's basically the only Mediterranean nation to make a real effort at reforestation.
并不是撒哈拉在增长，而是人们在砍伐森林，留下空地让沙子填满。在黎巴嫩有一些重新种植雪松的努力，但那基本上是唯一在重新造林方面做出真正努力的地中海国家。
Israel has quadrupled it’s forest coverage since independence and is the only country on earth that had more trees in 2000 than it did in 1900
自独立以来，以色列的森林覆盖率翻了两番，是地球上唯一一个2000年的树木比1900年多的国家。
Israel has planted thousands of dunams (900 sq meters to a dunam ) of former wasteland into forests, even though ‘experts’ said the trees wouldn’t grow where they planted them.
以色列将数千德南（900平方米为一德南）的前荒地种植成森林，尽管"专家"说这过些树无法在他们种植的地方生长。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Silas Kuira
Exactly, it's hard to fight mammoths and build a civilization at the same time. The threat of wild animals is real in southern Africa to this day and the Amazon. Topology also unforgiving. No wonder the Aztecs thrived from a remote island in the Amazon which is near modern-day Mexico city that isolated them providing security to thrive. The Inca were high up where you can't thrive unless you have the human capacities such as growing potatoes. Please note that the Sphinx next to the pyramids of Giza is carved out of coral limestone meaning it has always been proper desert ever since the shallow (salty) sea retreated exposing the Sahara.
没错，要想在对抗猛犸象的同时建立文明是很难的。野生动物的威胁至今在非洲南部和亚马逊地区都是真实存在的。地形也很严酷。难怪阿兹特克人在亚马逊的一个偏远岛屿上茁壮成长，这个岛屿靠近现代的墨西哥城，为他们的繁荣提供了安全保障。印加人则在高处，在那里除非你有人类的能力，如种植土豆，否则你不可能茁壮成长。请注意，吉萨金字塔旁边的狮身人面像是由珊瑚石灰岩雕刻而成的，这意味着自从浅海（咸水）退去暴露出撒哈拉沙漠以来，这里一直是沙漠。
I think the conditions in the Andes aren’t as different from Egypt as one might think. The Andes also has fertile valleys surrounded by large stretches of unfertile land, forcing the people to use that fertile land intelligently.
我认为安第斯山脉的条件并不像人们想象的那样与埃及不同。安第斯山脉也有肥沃的山谷，和周围大片贫瘠的土地，迫使人们只能巧妙地利用这些肥沃的土地。
Came to say this. The Andes are also basically rivers among deserts.
按照这种说法。安第斯山脉基本上也是沙漠中的河流。
But were/ are the Andes capable of supporting population intensities at rates equivalent to rivers?
Not to mention that the Andes, what with being mountains, make communication/ trade among different locales difficult, unlike the open spaces of the Nile (which is a communication and trade highway in of itself) Valley and Mesopotamia which make stuff like that easier.
但安第斯山脉是否有能力支持与河流相当的人口密度？
更不用说安第斯山脉，由于是山脉，使得不同地区之间的交流/贸易变得困难，不像尼罗河（本身就是一条交流和贸易的公路）流域和美索不达米亚平坦的开放空间，使得这样的事情更容易。
The fertile valleys I mentioned are river valleys. I’ll admit that the mountain ranges between those valleys can be tough to cross but so are the deserts that surround Egypt and Mesopotamia.
我提到的肥沃谷地是指河谷。我承认，这些河谷之间的山脉可能很难跨越，但环绕埃及和美索不达米亚的沙漠也是如此。
Would speculate that another factor helped — climate change after the last ice age ended, which forced the concentration of large populations into much smaller fertile areas.
Not only did a great deal of fertile and habitable land turn to desert after the last ice age, sea levels rose as well and inundated previously rich lands. The Tigris and Euphrates lost hundreds of mile of their length. The Nile Delta would have shrunk considerably. And all this happened at a pace that would have been noticeable within a generation.
Not only did population densities increase dramatically (demanding social rules and codes for living together), less land supported far more people (demanding great productivity and requiring specialisation and technology).
We can only speculate, of course.
我猜测另一个因素也有帮助--上个冰期结束后的气候变化，迫使大量人口集中到更小的肥沃地区。
在上个冰河时代之后，不仅大量肥沃和适合居住的土地变成了沙漠，海平面也上升，淹没了以前富饶的土地。底格里斯河和幼发拉底河失去了大片面积。尼罗河三角洲也大大缩减。而这一切发生的速度在一代人的时间内就会被注意到。
不仅人口密度急剧增加（需要制定社会规则和共同生活的准则），还需要以更少的土地支持更多的人（因此需要巨大的生产力，需要专业化和技术）。
当然，我们只能猜测。
Western Europe was too cold with lots of Marsh land and harsh winters. There were civilisations in warm parts of south Asia and China as well but regular rain leads to erosion of old buildings and artefacts so archeological evidence is lacking.
西欧太冷了，有很多沼泽地以及严酷的冬天。南亚和中国的温暖地区也有文明，但经常下雨会导致古建筑和文物被侵蚀，所以缺乏考古证据。
The ‘river in a desert’ concept is slightly off. During the preceding millennia, the desert’s were savannah and populations wide-spread. The drying out of this vast region concentrated people into the river valleys and this triggered the start of civilization. See ‘when the Sahara was green’.
“沙漠中的河流”这一概念略有偏差。在之前的几千年里，沙漠是大草原，人口分布广泛。这一广大地区的干燥使人们集中到河谷，这引发了文明的开始。见"当撒哈拉沙漠是绿色的"。
Still, it’s worth noting that some independent civilisations have developed in other conditions as well - in the Andes, or in China for example.
Well, the Andes was actually a similar case of rivers among deserts. Tawantinsuyu — the state we usually call the Inca Empire, though that name is as moronic as calling ancient Egypt the Pharaonic Empire — that state wasn’t the first civilization in the Andes. That honor goes to a civilization which we name Caral or Norte Chico. It was founded along the Fortaleza river, its first city at Huaricanga. Here’s a picture I got from the internet about it:
Rather… barren, no?
Many spots along the Andean coastline are quite arid, located as they are in the rainshadow of the Andes. Fog from the sea, local wind currents bringing moisture upwards, and runoff from snow in the mountains can create such rivers as exist, but the general fact of the region is that it is arid.
Once civilization in the region got started, it could create the infrastructure required to make the highlands themselves amenable to civilization, but settled agriculture in the Andes did not start in the highlands.
“不过，值得注意的是，一些独立的文明也是在其他条件下发展起来的--比如在安第斯山脉，或者在中国。”
安第斯山脉实际上是一个类似于沙漠中的河流的案例。塔万廷苏尤--我们通常称之为印加帝国的国家，尽管这个名字就像把古埃及称为法老帝国一样低能--那个国家并不是安第斯山脉的第一个文明。这个荣誉属于一个我们称之为卡拉尔或北奇科的文明。它是沿着福塔莱萨河建立的，它的第一个城市在瓦里坎加。这是我从互联网上搜到的一张关于它的图片。
相当......贫瘠，不是吗？
安第斯山脉海岸线上的许多地方都相当干旱，因为它们位于安第斯山脉的雨影之中。来自海洋的雾气、当地的气流将水分往上吹，以及山区的积雪融水可以形成这样的河流，但该地区普遍干旱。
一旦该地区的文明开始了，它可以创造出使高原本身适于文明的基础设施，但安第斯山脉的定居农业并不是从高原开始的。
The river part is also remarkably easy to defend from attackers.
Very hard indeed to lead an invading army across hundreds of miles of desert.
This would ensure very long term political and economic stability
河流也是防御攻击者的一项很大的优势。
要带领一支入侵的军队穿越数百英里的沙漠也确实非常困难。
这能确保非常长期的政治和经济稳定。
I think that many human tribes were attracted to the rivers amid the desert, there were many conflicts and a lot of blood for the control of this vital resource of life, but amid conflicts itself, people discovered the need to understand each other and to work together, and to talk to negotiate…etc so from exchanging ideas and goods the civilization emerged.
我认为，许多人类部落被沙漠中的河流所吸引，为了控制这一重要的生命资源，发生了许多冲突和大量的鲜血，但在冲突本身中，人们发现需要相互理解和合作，并通过交谈进行谈判......等等，因此从交流思想和货物中出现了文明。
Not only cooperation brings progress - but competition as well.
The need to be better and most efficient could press the inhabitants to find better tools and better materials; better war tactics; better domesticated animals; and more efficient writing or governing systems.
不仅仅是合作带来了进步--竞争也是如此。
对更好的和最有效的需求可以促使居民找到更好的工具和更好的材料；更好的战争策略；更好的驯化动物；以及更有效的写作或管理制度。
At the time, the area surrounding the Danube was not very suitable for cultivation, as the banks were marshy and on the edges of those marshes laid endless forests. Hell, at the time a large chunk of Europe (more than two thirds) was covered in such forests.
And that’s not getting into the issues with the soils and agricultural technology (or, rather, the lack of it) of the time.
当时，多瑙河周围的地区不太适合耕种，因为两岸是沼泽地，在这些沼泽地的边缘连接的是无尽的森林。该死的是，当时欧洲的一大部分（超过三分之二）都被这种森林所覆盖。
这还没有涉及到当时的土壤和农业技术（或者说，缺乏技术）的问题。
Looks like the Indus Valley is pretty arid too, but with some convenient rivers.
看起来印度河流域也很干旱，也有一些河流。
Yeah, at present. However, it is believed that 3 or 4 thousand years ago, the lower Indus Valley did get adequate monsoon rains to sustain civilisation.
Then, they say, climate changed and the rains stopped for a few centuries that caused the decline of the Indus Valley civilisation.
是的，现在是很干旱。然而，据说在3、4千年前，印度河流域下游确实有足够的季风降雨来维持文明。
然后，他们说气候发生了变化，雨停了几个世纪，导致印度河流域文明的衰落。
Published Ancient Religion ScholarMar 28
Egypt wasn't amongst the first civilizations.
The 12,000 year old Mesopotamians certainly were. Or the Göbekli Tepe, which is 11,250 years old. The Pengtoushan? 9,500 years old. Even in South America, the Norte Chico civilization is 9,000 years old.
The Ancient Egyptians are only 5,200 years old.
The nomadic Hebrew (the ancient ethnicity, not the modern language) cattle herders setlled in Canaan 5,100 years ago. They're almost as old an the Ancient Egyptians.
埃及并不是最早的文明之一。
有12000年历史的美索不达米亚人当然是。或者有11250年历史的戈贝克里特佩
文化。以及彭头山？它有9500年的历史。即使在南美洲，北奇科文明也有9000年的历史。
古埃及人只有5200年的历史。
游牧的希伯来人（古代民族，而不是现代语言）牧牛人在5100年前就定居在迦南了。他们几乎和古埃及人一样古老。
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