【经济学家说唱大战】历史的进程：马克思vs米塞斯评论-网帖翻译-龙腾网

WasabiBeast2000
The market demands more rap battles like this.

市场需要更多这样的说唱大战

benches
from now on: every political debate has to be done through a rap battle.

从现在开始，每一场政治辩论都必须通过说唱对决来完成。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

Ben Covington
Holy Fudge! Recently I've been studying some of the works of Mises, Marx, Hegel, etc. There are SO many inside jokes in this video that I missed when I watched it originally.
EG: 9:42 "Socialism's record isn't hard to parse, first it was tragedy, now it's a farce."
That is mocking a quote by Marx about how history always happens twice "first it's a tragedy, then it's a farce."

天哪，福吉！最近我一直在研究米塞斯、马克思、黑格尔等人的一些作品。这个视频里有太多的笑点，我最初看的时候错过了。
9:42的“社会主义的记录不难分析，首先它是悲剧，现在它是一场闹剧。”
这是在嘲笑马克思说的一句话，他说历史总是发生两次，“先是是悲剧，然后是闹剧。”

Dan Johnson
I don’t believe I can see this too many times. What a production! Very fun! But mainly… A terrific message. Thanks to all who had a hand in this.

难以置信我居然能看了这么多遍。多好的作品啊！很好玩！但主要是…一个很棒的信息。感谢所有参与此事的人。

MIL-fpv
"Let's unite people from every nation. In peace, exchange and cooperation."
Both sides and propably all of us can accept.

“让我们团结各国人民。在和平、交流与合作中。”
双方，也许我们都可以接受。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

Xavi Ondoño
I just wanted to appreciate the actor that played Marx for being able to say the phrase “organize the economy like the post office” like it was a good idea without bursting into laughter.

我只是想感谢扮演马克思的演员能够说出“像邮局一样组织经济”这句话，好像这是一个好主意，而没有爆发出笑声。

Chris Leirbag
Interessant.
Both Mises's and Marx's native language is German, however they only spoke English in this rap battle.
Except for when Mises said "Guten tag".
They would had this rap battle in German, if we were realistic.

有趣。
米塞斯和马克思的母语都是德语，然而在这场说唱大战中他们却只说英语。
除了米塞斯说“Guten tag”的时候。
如果符合现实一点的话，他们会用德语进行这场说唱之战。

Thomas takes a toll for the dark
Feudalists: allow us to introduce ourselves-
Capitalist: pays for the gun and bullets
Socialist: shoots the feudalist

封建主义者:请允许我们自我介绍
资本家:支付枪和子弹的费用
社会主义者:射杀封建主义者

Samson Bouillon
"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."
-Winston Churchill, House of Commons, 22 October 1945

“资本主义的内在缺陷是幸福的不平等分享。社会主义的内在美德是平等分担苦难。”
-温斯顿·丘吉尔，下议院，1945年10月22日

Pyrus Torrel
I tend to see things this way: A system is only as good as its design, components, & users; if there is anything faulty about any of those things, the system's gonna produce faulty results.
To me the "problems" with capitalism & socialism seem to stem more from how they're abused by "faulty" users than from the systems themselves.
I imagine that some people want socialism because they don't want to have to worry about whether or not they will be able to afford the necessities of life or whether or not they're doing as well as the next person, but get tricked into giving power to people who are only interested in being in control & looking powerful & magnificent at everyone else's expense. To me that's where the faultiness of socialism comes in.
I imagine some people like capitalism because they like to be the ones to decide for themselves how they'll get what they need to live, but some of those people get so caught up in acquiring that they do not notice or even don't care when their actions start unduly hampering or hurting others. To me that is where the faultiness of capitalism comes in.

我倾向于这样看待问题:一个系统的好坏取决于它的设计、组件和使用者;如果这些东西有任何错误，系统就会产生错误的结果。
在我看来，资本主义和社会主义的“问题”似乎更多地源于它们是如何被“错误”的用户滥用的，而不是系统本身。
我想有些人想要社会主义，因为他们不想担忧是否能负担得起生活必需品，或者他们是否和其他人做得一样好，但他们只是被欺骗了，把权力交给了那些只对控制、看起来强大和杰出的人，而去牺牲一些人的利益。对我来说，这就是社会主义的缺陷所在。
我想有些人喜欢资本主义，因为他们喜欢自己决定如何获得生活所需的东西，但其中一些人太沉迷于索取，以至于当他们的行为开始过度妨碍或伤害他人，他们没有注意到，甚至不在乎。在我看来，这就是资本主义的缺陷所在。

JesseKWB
I really like the song. Both sides have good points. The only thing is they may have misinterpreted Marx's opinion on capitalism. I think he thought capitalism necessary for socialism to rise, rather than dismissing it entirely (which may have been portrayed a little, but maybe not enough). Keep in mind I know nothing about the subject and haven't formed an opinion, but if someone wants to explain much better than I ever could - be my guest. If I'm even right, as I said - I don't know anything about the topic.

我真的很喜欢这首歌。双方都有优点。唯一的问题是，他们可能误解了马克思对资本主义的看法。我觉得他认为资本主义是社会主义崛起的必要条件，而不是完全否定它(这可能被描绘了一点，但可能还不够)。请记住，我对这个问题一无所知，也没有形成自己的观点，但如果有人觉得解释得比我更好，请自便。如果我是对的，正如我所说的，我对这个话题一无所知。

inteligentinho antisojados
"Is history marching inevitably towards centrally planned socialism, as Karl Marx proclaimed?" Except Marx never made any of these hypothesis in this assertion... Well, the younger Marx did, but just as a slogan, to raise the moral of the workers so they could have something metaphysical and transcendent to believe they are fighting for, but he didn't really developed these concepts as a theory. Marx never really developed a theory of the linearity of the history or the end of it like the neocon Francis Fukuyama for example, and never developed a normative socialist economic model either. "Central planned socialism" is a theory and a model developed by other people like Lenin after Marx's death and maybe Marx would never have agreed with this model if he was alive.

“历史是否如卡尔·马克思所言，不可避免地走向中央计划社会主义?”但是马克思在这个论断中从来没有提出过这些假设……年轻的马克思是这样做的，但只是作为一个口号，来提高工人的道德，让他们有一些形而上学的和超验的东西来相信，让他们在为之奋斗，但他并没有把这些概念发展成理论。马克思从来没有像新保守主义者弗朗西斯·福山那样真正发展出关于历史终结的线性理论，也从来没有发展出规范的社会主义经济模型。“中央计划社会主义”是一种理论和模型，是在马克思死后由其他人如列宁发展起来的，如果马克思还活着，他可能永远不会同意这种模式。

Lord Knightcon
9:17- "Your fail predictions."
Woah... hold up, lol...
This video lists under "failed predictions"
1. immiseration thesis
2. post-scarcity world
3. the poor getting poorer
4. Monopolization
5. Falling rate of profit
6. middle class collapse
7. worker revolution
8. concentration of wealth

9:17-“你失败的预言。”
哇哦...等一下，哈哈...
这个视频列在“失败的预测”下面
1.贫困化论题
2.后稀缺社会
3.穷人越来越穷
4.垄断
5.利润率下降
6.中产阶级崩溃
7.工人革命
8.财富的集中
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

Today we have more than at any other time in history: production rates sufficient to meet the basic needs of every person on the planet, the dollar being less valuable than it ever has, the top wealthiest people having more wealth than the bottom poorest, and the fewest companies in control of the largest portion of the market share. All of which is trending further in their current direction. That's literally everything he was talking about.
Please elaborate on which of these predictions has failed? He's literally been correct about everything except for the workers rising up in revolt.

今天，我们比历史上任何时候都拥有更多:生产率足以满足地球上每个人的基本需求，美元比以往任何时候都更不值钱，最富裕的人比最贫穷的人拥有更多的财富，最少的公司控制着最大部分的市场份额。所有这些都朝着当前的方向发展。这就是他所说的一切。
请详细说明这些预测中哪些失败了？除了工人起义之外，他几乎对所有事情都是正确的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

Sintorace
I dislike the "capitalism can do no wrong" narrative, and the "It's always beneficial for everyone" bs.
Child labor has entered the chat
High deaths on the job and 80hour work weeks has entered the chat
The great depression has entered the chat
The GILDED AGE has entered the chat
Remember when capitalists sent Pinkertons to shoot up disgruntled workers protesting terrible work conditions and wages? Me too.
You agree to take a job that pays slave wages out of necessity, not because it's the best option for you, or because you find it suitable in any fashion. It's coercion!
Work this minimum wage job, or starve to death. What a "choice", am I right?
Doesn't help that EVERY company wants to pay bullshit wages to maximize profit output. A capitalist wants to lower costs as much as possible. Wages are a cost.
You will always get the lowest possible pay to stay barely competitive with other capitalists under capitalism and when they band together to keep wages low, it creates a bust....which tends to happen in the USA every 10 years or so.

我不喜欢“资本主义不会出错”的说法，也不喜欢“资本主义总是对每个人都有益”的说法。
童工问题已经进入了讨论
工作高死亡率和每周80小时工作已经进入讨论
大萧条已经进入讨论
镀金时代已经进入讨论
还记得资本家派平克顿去枪杀不满的工人，抗议糟糕的工作条件和工资吗?我记得。
你同意接受一份支付奴隶工资的工作是出于需要，不是因为它对你来说是最好的选择，也不是因为你发现它在任何方面都适合你。被强迫的而已!
要么做这份最低工资的工作，要么饿死。也算一种“选择”，我说的对吗?
每个公司都想支付狗屁工资来最大化利润产出，这一点也没有帮助。资本家希望尽可能地降低成本。工资是一种成本。
在资本主义制度下，你总是会得到尽可能低的工资，以保持与其他资本家的竞争力，当他们联合起来保持低工资时，就会造成萧条....这在美国每十年左右就会发生一次。

【经济学家说唱大战】历史的进程：马克思vs米塞斯评论

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