George RR Martin: ‘I don’t understand how people can come to hate so much something that they once loved’

乔治·RR·马丁:“我不明白为什么人们会如此讨厌他们曾经喜欢的东西。”
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George RR Martin has spent a lifetime telling stories, so it’s strange to see him lost for words. We’re in the back room of Beastly Books, surrounded by the colourful volumes of his work that line the shelves of the charming little shop he opened three years ago in his adopted home of Santa Fe, New Mexico. Sunk in a high-backed brown leather chair in front of a wall-sized mural of John Singer Sargent’s Edwardian-era oil painting Nonchaloir (Repose), the author has been playing raconteur for the last hour. Eyes twinkling behind silver-frxd glasses, he’s been telling the fantastical tale of the son of a longshoreman from New Jersey who grew up reading Shakespeare, Tolkien, and Marvel comic books, and went on to write his own bestselling epic fantasy series A Song of Ice and Fire, which in turn became the record-breaking, award-hoarding, television-conquering HBO series Game of Thrones.

乔治·马丁一生都在讲故事，所以看到他不知道说什么就很奇怪。野兽书屋的后屋，周围书架上摆满了五颜六色的书，这些都是他的作品。三年前他在新墨西哥州的第二故乡圣达菲开了这家迷人的小店。书屋后面墙壁上挂着覆盖整面墙壁的约翰·辛格·萨金特爱德华时代的油画《休息》。过去的一个小时里，乔治·马丁坐在棕色高背椅上，一直在讲故事。银框镜片后的眼光闪烁，新泽西港口工人的儿子，读着莎士比亚、托尔金、漫威漫画长大，后来写出了打破纪录，获奖无数的畅销史诗奇幻作品《冰与火之歌》，衍生出征服电视的HBO电视剧《权力的游戏》，这就是他的奇异故事。

The runaway success of the show made Martin rich beyond even the wildest fever dreams of a lifelong science-fiction writer, but it’s his first-hand experience of the viciousness of a particular type of hyper-online fan that’s left him uncharacteristically stumped. “I don’t understand how people can come to hate so much something that they once loved,” he says. “If you don’t like a show, don’t watch it! How has everything become so toxic?”

这部剧的巨大成功让马丁的拥有了巨额财富，这是科幻作家一辈子做最狂热的梦也想不到的财富，但是直面特殊的超级在线粉丝的邪恶，他一反常态地被难住了。他说:“我不明白为什么人们会这么讨厌他们曾经喜欢的东西。如果不喜欢，就不要看!事情为什么变得这么有毒?”
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Martin is regularly harangued about when he’s going to produce The Winds of Winter, the sixth book in the A Song of Ice and Fire series, not to mention a seventh volume still to come after that. He’s also seen the virulent scorn poured by some critics and professed fans on the final season of Game of Thrones, so it’s perhaps with some trepidation that he’s returning to the televisual fray. On 21 August, Martin will take HBO back to Westeros in House of the Dragon, a prequel show set several hundred years before the events of Game of Thrones. It tells the story of the Targaryens, whose royal dynasty was built on their power as dragonlords before a civil war tore the family apart – which means there should be enough fire-breathing and aerial battles for even the most hard-to-please fan.

人们喋喋不休地谈论马丁什么时候会创作《冰与火之歌》系列的第六部《凛冬的寒风》，更不用说之后的第七部了。《权力的游戏》的最后一季，他看到了一些评论家和自称粉丝的铺天盖地的恶毒嘲讽，所以这次回归电视剧多少还是带着一些不安。8月21日，马丁将带领HBO回到《龙之家族》的维斯特洛大陆，这部前传的故事设定在《权力的游戏》发生的几百年前。讲述了坦格利安家族的故事，王室建立在他们作为龙王的权力之上，后来一场内战将这个家族撕裂——这意味着即使是最难取悦的粉丝，影片也会有足够多的喷火和空战。

The author is wise enough not to take any of the online abuse he suffers too personally. After all, the same toxicity seems to infect the discourse around many of the world’s most popular stories. “The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power isn’t even on yet [it will stream on Amazon in September], but if you follow what’s going on online, the controversy about it is like World War Two. They’re dropping atomic bombs on each other,” he says incredulously of the fans who howl about any perceived deviation from the source material. “You hear controversies about some of the Marvel shows and the Marvel movies, certainly about the DC characters. It used to be if you were a fan of Star Trek, you liked Star Trek. Now it seems like half the people who call themselves Star Trek fans hate Star Trek, and the Star Wars fans hate Star Wars, and the Tolkien fans hate Rings of Power. What the hell? Now maybe it’s because it’s changing, but as a writer you’d go crazy if you didn’t change it somehow. You want to tell new stories, not tell the same stories over and over again.”

作者很清醒，没有把网络上的谩骂个人化。毕竟，围绕世界上许多最受欢迎的故事展开的讨论似乎也受到了同样的毒副作用。“《指环王：力量之戒》还没有上映(9月将在亚马逊上播放)，但如果关注网上的动态，你会发现争议就像二战一样。双方互相投下原子弹，”他难以置信地说，粉丝们对任何与原著不符的情节大发牢骚。“你听到过一些关于漫威剧集和漫威电影的争议，当然还有DC漫画人物。在过去，如果你是《星际迷航》的粉丝，你就会喜欢《星际迷航》。现在似乎有一半自称《星际迷航》迷的人讨厌《星际迷航》，《星球大战》迷讨厌《星球大战》，《托尔金》迷讨厌《力量指环》。这到底是怎么回事? 也许这是因为世界正在改变，但作为一个作家，如果你不改变，你就会发疯。你想讲新的故事，而不是一遍又一遍地重复同一个故事。”

Martin knows what it’s like to be a superfan. He grew up in the New Jersey port town of Bayonne in the Fifties, and the first words he ever had published were fan letters in Marvel comics. “‘Dear Stan and Jack, you guys are better than Shakespeare!’” recalls Martin of his heartfelt declarations of the genius of writer-artist team Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. How times have changed. “I was a big Marvel fan, and I tried some of those Marvel shows that were on in the Seventies, The [Incredible] Hulk with Bill Bixby and [TV movies about] Captain America. I tried them once and I didn’t watch them again because I didn’t like them very much, but I didn’t go crazy and start writing hate mail,” he says. “I’ve got to think social media has something to do with it.”

马丁知道成为超级粉丝是什么感觉。50年代他在新泽西港口的贝永小镇长大，他发表的第一段话是作为漫威漫画的粉丝来信。“‘亲爱的斯坦和杰克，你们比莎士比亚还棒! ’”马丁回忆道，他由衷地称赞斯坦·李和杰克·柯比是天才作家兼艺术家。时代变了。“我是漫威的超级粉丝，我看过一些70年代的漫威剧，比如比尔·比克斯比主演的《无敌浩克》，还有关于美国队长的电视。我看过一次就不看了，因为我不太喜欢，但我没有发疯，没有写仇恨邮件，”他说。 “我认为这与社交媒体有关。”

In the days when Martin discovered them, superhero comics were just one genre among many. “There were cowboy comic books and there were war comic books, and for the girls there were romance comic books – which I didn’t touch of course!” he recalls. Superheroes were Martin’s favourite, but he found himself losing interest. “The stories never went anywhere,” he says. “Superman would be there, and his girlfriend Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen his best friend, Perry White the editor of the Daily Planet, and something would happen. At the end of the story, everything would be exactly the way it was at the beginning of the story, for issue after issue, year after year.” Then along came Stan Lee, who broke all the rules. “Stan Lee’s writing was so much better than what you’d been getting,” he says. “Things happened. Spider-Man was progressing. It was so refreshing.”

在马丁那个超级英雄漫画的年代，超级英雄漫画只是众多类型中的一种。“有牛仔漫画，有战争漫画，还有女孩们的爱情漫画——当然我没有碰过!”他回忆说。超级英雄是马丁的最爱，但他发现自己失去了兴趣。他说:“这些故事从未有过什么大的变化。超人、他的女朋友露易丝·莱恩、他最好的朋友吉米·奥尔森、《星球日报》的编辑佩里·怀特都会出现，然后就会发生一些事情。故事的结尾和故事开始时一模一样，一个问题接着一个问题，一年接着一年。” 然后斯坦·李出现了，他打破了所有规则。他说:“斯坦·李的作品比你看到的要好得多。会发生很多事情。蜘蛛侠在进步。让人耳目一新。”

Martin has been using the lessons he learned ever since. He grows animated at the memory of reading Avengers #9, originally published in October 1964, the issue that introduced a new Avenger named Wonder Man. It was soon revealed that Wonder Man was a villain, but in a second twist he ultimately chose not to betray his new friends the Avengers. Then, Wonder Man died. “That’s all Stan Lee, and you can see it all over my work!” points out Martin. “Unexpectedly killing characters, characters who are not what they seem, characters who are partly good and partly bad. Grey characters. You don’t know which way they’re going to jump when the moment of crisis comes. Stan Lee’s fingerprints are all over that.”

从那以后，马丁一直在使用他学到的经验。当读到1964年10月出版的《复仇者联盟9》时，他变得兴奋起来，这期杂志介绍了新的复仇者——神奇侠。很快就有消息称神奇侠是反派，但在第二次反转中，他最终选择不背叛他的新朋友复仇者联盟。然后，神奇侠死了。“这都是斯坦·李的杰作，你可以在我的作品中看到!马丁指出。“出乎意料地杀了角色，杀了表里不一的角色，杀了好坏参半的角色、灰色角色。当危机来临的时候，你不知道他们会往哪个方向跳。这些全是斯坦·李的手法。"

At the age of 21, Martin sold his first short story, “The Hero”. A space-age tale about a genetically enhanced super-soldier trying to get discharged, the story was inspired by tales of shell-shocked veterans and Martin’s own political opposition to the war in Vietnam. He credits its publication, in a 1971 issue of Galaxy Magazine, with helping him to gain conscientious obxtor status and avoid the draft. It also got him his first pay cheque as a writer. “I got $94,” he remembers. “That was a lot of money in 1970.”

21岁时，马丁卖出了他的第一个短篇小说《英雄》。这篇小说是关于太空时代的故事，讲述了一个基因增强的超级士兵试图退伍的故事，故事的灵感来自患有炮弹休克症的老兵，以及马丁自己政治上反对越南战争。他把这篇小说发表在1971年的《银河杂志》上，他认为这本书为他获得了认为战争罪恶而拒绝服兵役的身份，并避免了服兵役。他也因此获得了作为作家的第一笔收入。“94美元，”他回忆道，“这在1970年可是一大笔钱。”

When Bobby Fischer won the World Chess Championship in 1972, it sparked a short-lived chess craze in the US, which for a while meant Martin could earn a living running chess tournaments on the weekends. This supported his writing during the week, and helped him progress from short stories to novellas. He was teaching English and journalism at Clarke College in Iowa by the time he published his debut novel, Dying of the Light, in 1977 – a science-fiction story set on a dying planet.

1972年，鲍比·菲舍尔赢得了国际象棋世界锦标赛，这在美国引发了一股短暂的国际象棋热潮，这一度意味着马丁可以在周末靠国际象棋锦标赛谋生。其他时间他就坚持写作，他也就有时间从短篇小说发展到中篇小说。1977年他在爱荷华州的克拉克学院教英语和新闻时，出版了处女作《光之消逝》——这是一部以即将消亡的星球为背景的科幻小说。

After quitting his job in 1979, Martin moved to Santa Fe to focus on writing full time. His fourth novel, The Armageddon Rag, published in 1983, was supposed to be his commercial breakthrough. He describes the book as a “big, hard-to-classify mystery-thriller-supernatural novel about rock’n’roll in the Sixties”. There was only one problem. “It got great reviews. Unfortunately, very few people bought it.” Sales stank so bad, no publisher wanted to go anywhere near his next book. “That was a scary period of time. I was thinking maybe I should get a realtor’s licence,” he says, before offering a brief but deeply endearing demonstration of what it would be like if George RR Martin tried to sell you somewhere to live. “‘This house has four bathrooms,’” he pantomimes. “‘Would you like to see the upstairs?’ That kind of thing.”

1979年辞去工作后，马丁搬到圣达菲，全职从事写作。他的第四部小说《末日狂歌》于1983年出版，被认为是他在商业上的突破。他把这本书描述为“一本关于60年代摇滚乐的难以归类的神秘惊悚超自然小说”。只有一个问题：“评价很高。不幸的是，买的人很少。”销量如此糟糕，没有出版商愿意碰他的下一本书。“那段时间真是难熬。当时我想也许应该去考个房地产经纪人执照，”他说。然后，简短而又亲切地演示了一下，如果乔治·马丁想卖给你一套房子，那会是什么样子。“‘这所房子有四个浴室，’”他打着手势说，“‘想看看楼上吗? ’诸如此类。”
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Thankfully for Martin, if sadly for the real-estate business, one person who did buy the book was Hollywood producer Philip DeGuere Jr. He optioned The Armageddon Rag and then hired Martin to join the writing staff for his 1985 reboot of The Twilight Zone. Martin wrote five scxts, one of which made it onto the air at the very end of the season. “That was the first time I ever visited the set,” he remembers. “It was like words on my paper were suddenly real. There were carpenters building Stonehenge because it’s in a scene. A novelist or a short-story writer lives in their head, and you have these dreams, but the first time you see them assuming tangible reality is very exciting.”

如果对于房地产行业来说是不幸的话，让马丁感到庆幸的是有个人买了这本书，这个人就是好莱坞制片人小菲利普·德盖尔。他看中了《末日狂歌》，然后雇佣马丁加入他1985年重启的《阴阳魔界》编剧团队。马丁写了5个剧本，其中一个在这季的最后播出。“那是我第一次参观片场，”他回忆道。“就好像我纸上的文字突然成真了。有木匠建造巨石阵，因为有这个场景。小说家或短篇小说作家生活在想象中，你会做这些梦，但当你第一次看到这些梦真真切切存在的时候你会感到非常兴奋。”

After the show was cancelled, Martin went on to work as a writer for proto-CGI satire Max Headroom, and for fantasy series Beauty and the Beast, starring Ron Perlman and Linda Hamilton. He was still mostly working in television by 1991 when, during a lull in productions, he attempted to write another instalment in his long-running Thousand Worlds science-fiction series. Instead, he was struck by an image for a whole new story, in a world he’d never even dreamt of before. “I just suddenly got this vision of these direwolf pups being found in the summer snows,” he recalls wistfully. “That phrase ‘in the summer snows’ was always part of it, from the beginning. These were ‘summer snows’, which meant something had to be wrong with the climate. I started writing it, and there were castles and guys with swords. I wrote it very quickly. In three days, I had finished the chapter, which is fast for me. As you may know, I’m not usually reckoned one of the fastest writers in the world!”

这部剧被砍后，马丁继续担任讽刺剧《双面麦斯》的编剧，以及由罗恩·帕尔曼和琳达·汉密尔顿主演的奇幻剧《美女与野兽》的编剧。1991年，他主要在电视行业工作，当时在制作的间歇，他试图为自己的长篇科幻小说《千界宇宙》系列再写一集。结果他被一个全新的画面所震撼，在一个他连做梦都没有想到过的世界里。“我突然看到冰原狼幼崽在夏雪中被发现的景象，”他渴望地回忆道。 “从一开始，‘夏雪’就一直是其中一部分。这些是“夏雪”，这意味着气候一定出了什么问题。开始写的时候，里面有城堡和拿着剑的人。我写得很快。三天我就完成了那一章，这对我来说是很快的。你可能知道，通常我可不是世界上写得最快的作家之一!”

Martin likes to describe his writing style as that of a “gardener”, in contrast to an “architect” who plans out their stories well in advance. The world of Westeros and the story of Game of Thrones grew together organically as he tended them. “The Wall and the Night’s Watch, where did all that come from? I don’t know,” he says. “I was gardening, and suddenly something was sprouting at the end. It took me over, pretty much for the whole of the summer of 1991.”

马丁喜欢把自己的写作风格描述为“园丁”，而不是“建筑师”，后者会提前规划好故事。 维斯特洛的世界和《权力的游戏》的故事在他的照料下有机地结合在一起。“长城和守夜人军团，这一切从何而来? 我不知道，”他说，“我正在花园李干活，突然有什么东西在破土而出。这几乎占据了我1991年的整个夏天。”

A Game of Thrones, the first novel in A Song of Ice and Fire, was published in 1996. By the time the third book in the series, A Storm of Swords, came out in 2000, Martin had been living with his characters for the best part of a decade, so you can imagine how cut up he was about having to kill off so many of them off for the novel’s notorious Red Wedding. “I finished the entire book, except for the Red Wedding,” recalls Martin with a grimace. “That was such a painful chapter for me to write, losing some characters that I had come to know and love. Nine years I’d been with these characters, and now I was going to kill them horribly! That was difficult.”

《冰与火之歌》的第一部小说《权力的游戏》于1996年出版。本系列的第三本《冰雨地风暴》是2000年出版的，大约10的时间里，马丁一直沉浸在自己的角色里，所以可以想象那场臭名昭著的“血色婚礼”，他不得不杀死很多角色时心里有多难受。“整本书我都写完了，除了那场血色婚礼，”马丁苦笑地回忆道，“对我来说，这是非常痛苦的一章，失去了一些我开始了解和喜爱的人物。我和这些角色在一起九年了，现在我要把他们残忍地杀死! 这很困难。”

Martin’s philosophy is that death should be difficult. Difficult to write and difficult to read. “It’s a horrible chapter, and it upsets people,” he says. “It makes people angry, it makes people sad. People throw the book against the wall or into the fireplace. When it was on TV, it had the same effect on tens of thousands, if not millions, of people. To my mind, that’s good. We’re talking about death here!”

马丁的哲学是死亡应该是艰难的。写起来难，读起来也很难。他说:“这是可怕的一章，让人们感到不安、让人愤怒、让人悲伤。读者把书扔到了墙上，甚至扔到壁炉里。电视上播出时，又对更多人产生了同样的影响，没有上百万，也得有个好几十万。在我看来，这很好。我们这里谈论的是死亡!”

Too often, Martin believes, death is trivialised by being reduced to a mere plot point or inciting incident. “We all in our real lives have experienced death,” he says. “Your parents die. Your best friend dies. Sometimes, in a really tragic situation, your children die or your wife or husband dies. It’s terrible. It affects you. It makes you angry, it makes you sad. In our entertainment, television, film, books, over the centuries as it’s evolved, death is often treated very cavalierly. Somebody is dead, we’ve got a mystery, and the detective has to figure out who did it. We never consider who the corpse is, or what his life was like... what it’s going to be like without him. If I’m going to write a death scene, particularly for major characters, I want to make the reader feel it. That’s what the Red Wedding, I think, successfully accomplished. People felt that death.”

马丁认为，死亡往往被轻描淡写地简化为一个情节点或煽动性事件。“我们在现实生活中都经历过死亡，”他说，“父母的死亡，挚友的死亡。有时候，非常悲惨的情况，孩子的死亡，或者配偶的死亡。这很可怕。这些死亡会影响你，让你感到气愤、悲伤。几百年来，在电视，电影，书籍等娱乐节目，人们对待死亡常常漫不经心。有人死了就会出现一个谜团，侦探必须找出是谁干的。我们从不考虑尸体是谁，或者他的生活是怎样的…… 如果没有了他，世界会怎么样。我要写死亡场景，尤其是主要人物的死亡场景，我希望让读者感受到。我认为血色婚礼就实现了这一点。人们感受到了死亡。”

In any case, he argues, his reputation as a gleeful mass-murdering character-assassin has been woefully exaggerated. “Star Wars kills more characters than I do!” he argues. “In the very first Star Wars movie they blow up the entire planet of Alderaan, which has, like, 20 billion people on it, and they’re all dead. But you know what? Nobody cares. Everybody on Alderaan is dead. Oh, OK. But we don’t know the people on Alderaan. We don’t feel their deaths. It’s just a statistic. If you’re going to write about death, you should feel it.”

无论如何，他认为自己作为乐于屠杀角色的名声被可悲地夸大了。“《星球大战》杀死的角色比我还多! ”他说，“第一部《星球大战》，他们炸掉了整个奥德兰星球，那里有200亿人，他们都死了。但是你知道吗? 没有人在乎。阿尔德兰所有人都死了。哦,好吧。我们不认识阿尔德兰的人。我们感受不到他们的死亡。这只是个统计数据。如果你要写关于死亡的东西，你应该让读者感受到死亡。”

In other words, don’t bank on anybody from the House of the Dragon cast making it all the way to the end of the season. The new show hits HBO two weeks before Amazon’s The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power, and as an avowed Tolkien disciple, Martin will naturally be tuning in to both. “It’s kind of a weird deal, as you know. Amazon bought Tolkien, but they didn’t actually get any of the books,” he explains. “They didn’t get The Lord of the Rings, they didn’t get The Hobbit, they didn’t even get The Silmarillion. I don’t think they got Farmer Giles of Ham or Leaf by Niggle, but they got the appendices, I guess, and they’re constructing a Second Age story about that. There’s a lot of myth about that, so it’ll be interesting to see what they did.”

换句话说，不要指望《龙之家族》的演员们能坚持到最后一季。这部新剧比亚马逊的《指环王:魔戒的力量》提前两周在HBO播出，作为托尔金的忠实信徒，马丁自然会收看这两部剧。“你知道，这是奇怪的交易。亚马逊买下了托尔金，但实际上他们没有得到任何一本书，”他解释道。“他们没有拿到《指环王》，没有拿到《霍比特人》，甚至连《精灵宝钻》都没有。我觉得他们也没有拿到《哈莫农夫吉尔斯》和《尼葛的叶子》，但他们有附录，我想他们正在构建一个关于第二时代的故事。 这里面有很多神话，所以看看他们做了什么会很有趣。”

Martin points out that when he was a kid, the TV schedules were packed with Westerns, so there’s surely room for more than one epic fantasy. “I know a lot of articles, the minute the dates were announced, it’s: ‘Oh, the battle for fantasy supremacy. It’s Rings of Power versus House of the Dragon, who will win?’ I don’t know why they always have to do that,” he says. “I hope both shows succeed. I’m competitive enough. I hope we succeed more. If they win six Emmys – and I hope they do – I hope we win seven. But nonetheless, it’s good for fantasy. I love fantasy. I love science fiction. I want more shows on television.”

马丁说他还是孩子的时候，电视里面全部都是西部片，所以肯定能容纳不止一部史诗奇幻片。“我知道很多文章，日期公布的那刻，人们就会说:‘哦，奇幻霸权争夺战又来了。这回是《魔戒》对战《龙之家族》，谁会赢? ’我不知道他们为什么总是这样做，”他说，“我希望两部剧都能成功。我有足够的竞争力。我希望我们能取得更大的成功。如果他们能赢得6项艾美奖——我希望他们能拿下，那么我希望我们能赢得7项。尽管如此，这对玄幻片还是有好处的。我爱幻想。我喜欢科幻小说。我想在电视上看到更多我的作品。”

Martin says he’s already seen a few rough cuts of House of the Dragon, and couldn’t help being taken back to late 2010, when he travelled to Europe to watch Maisie Williams and Sean Bean film the scene where Arya Stark talks to Ned Stark while balancing on one foot at the top of a flight of stairs. It was his first visit to the set of Game of Thrones; his first glimpse of the show that would take over TV, and his life. “It was magical,” says Martin. “It was like: here are my characters, they’ve come to life. They’re saying the things they said. The scene is pretty much as I imagined it when I wrote it. There’s nothing like that.”

马丁说他已经看到过《龙之家族》一些粗略的剪辑，这让我忍不住回到2010年,那时他去欧洲观看麦茜·威廉姆斯（二丫的扮演者）和肖恩·宾（奈德·史塔克的扮演者）拍摄的场景，当时艾丽娅·史塔克正一只脚站在楼梯上与肖奈德·史塔克说话。这是他第一次来到《权力的游戏》片场; 他第一次看到那个即将成为电视界主流的节目，当然还有他的生活。“太神奇了，”马丁说，“就像:这是我的角色，他们活过来了。他们在说他们说过的话。这个场景和我写的时候想象的差不多。简直一模一样。”

Whether the show’s fans will take as passionately to House of the Dragon remains to be seen. Martin’s ready to roll the dice. “We’ll see if they accept House of the Dragon as they did Game of Thrones,” he says. “It’s different characters. It’s a different time. It’s the same world. It’s a different story. This profession is a gambler’s profession. You tell your story, and then you see whether they’re standing up and applauding or whether they’ve brought some rotten fruit to the theatre that they’re going to now pelt you with. If it is rotten fruit, you’ve just got to duck and run backstage and invent another story to tell the next time. That’s what I do. I’m a storyteller.”


这部剧的粉丝是否会像《龙之家族》一样热情，还有待观察。马丁要孤注一掷了。 他说:“我们看看他们是否会像《权力的游戏》那样接受《龙之家族》。这次是不同的角色。不同的时代。虽然是同一个世界，但是却完全是另一个故事。职业是赌徒的职业。你讲述自己的故事，然后看他们是否站起来鼓掌，还是说他们带了腐烂的水果到电影院，准备好向你投掷。如果是腐烂的水果，你只需要躲到后台，再编一个故事，下次再讲。 这就是我的工作。 我是一个讲故事的人。”