澳大利亚人真的喜欢技术移民进入并发展国家吗？
Do Australians really like skilled immigrants coming in and developing the country?
译文简介
网友：这个问题没有单一的答案，因为如果你问100个不同的人，你会得到100个不同的答案，积极的，消极的，或者介于两者之间。我将从我的角度来回答，作为一个通才的回答。在现实中，我怀疑大多数澳大利亚人都不在乎，除了偶尔受到边缘团体和媒体的攻击外，他们根本不会考虑这个问题......
正文翻译
Do Australians really like skilled immigrants coming in and developing the country?
澳大利亚人真的喜欢技术移民进入并发展这个国家吗？
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
评论翻译
很赞 ( 0 )
收藏
There is no single answer to this because if you ask a hundred different people you’ll get a hundred different answers, positive, negative, and in between. I'm going to answer from my perspective, and as a generalist response.
In reality, I suspect most Australians couldn't care less and don't give it any thought outside the occasional beat-up by fringe groups and media. As a general rule, I think Australians are friendly, reasonable and welcoming. I hope so, as I'm an Aussie too.
There will be people who answer in the negative, influenced by extremist views and spurious theories around immigration and the economy, and sheer, uneducated racism. I like to think that's a very small minority, equivalent in size perhaps to those who continue to protest against the Covid vaccination - perhaps 2% at a pinch.
If pushed to give an answer, I reckon most Australians think it's fine, especially given the caveat that it's ‘developing the country’, and on the proviso that they're not taking jobs from Australians living here. That’s an important consideration.
I don't care what race or colour or creed an immigrant is as long as they can do the job, and that they fit a need. They'll be welcomed with open arms and a cold beer. My concern is that at times Australian corporations look offshore for cheaper alternatives to local labour. The need is not technical but economic and can become exploitative.
I work in an industry where there are many skilled immigrants. While it has had an impact on the job market (Covid has reversed some of that), I'm positive about what clever and targeted immigration can do for this country. I want us to grow big and become smarter and believe that's only possible by opening ourselves up to diversity of cultures and perspectives. The intelligent and ambitious immigrant makes us stronger, and I'm all for that.
这个问题没有单一的答案，因为如果你问100个不同的人，你会得到100个不同的答案，积极的，消极的，或者介于两者之间。我将从我的角度来回答，作为一个通才的回答。
在现实中，我怀疑大多数澳大利亚人都不在乎，除了偶尔受到边缘团体和媒体的攻击外，他们根本不会考虑这个问题。一般来说，我认为澳大利亚人友好、通情达理、热情好客。我希望如此，因为我也是澳大利亚人。
在移民和经济方面的极端主义观点和虚假理论以及纯粹的、未受教育的种族主义的影响下，会有人做出否定的回答。我认为这是一个非常小的少数群体，规模可能相当于那些继续抗议新冠疫苗接种的人——可能是2%的人。
如果一定要给出一个答案，我认为大多数澳大利亚人认为这很好，尤其是考虑到“发展国家”的警告，并且附带条件是他们不会从居住在这里的澳大利亚人那里抢走工作。 这是一个重要的考虑因素。
我不在乎移民是什么种族、肤色或信仰，只要他们能胜任工作，并且符合需求就行。他们会受到热烈欢迎，还会有冰凉的啤酒招待他们。我担心的是，有时澳大利亚公司会在海外寻找更廉价的本地劳动力替代品。这种需求不是技术上的，而是经济上的，他们可能会被剥削。
我所在的行业有很多技术移民。虽然它对就业市场产生了影响 (新冠疫情已经扭转了一些)，但我对聪明和有针对性的移民能为这个国家做些什么持肯定态度。我希望我们能变得更大、更聪明，并相信只有通过开放自己，接受不同的文化和观点，才能做到这一点。聪明而有野心的移民让我们更强大，我完全支持这一点。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I'd like to add a different perspective - and I'm doing so anonymously because I'd like to tell it as it is, rather than repeat the same politically-correct lines politicians use.
Also, please bear in kind that you're unlikely to get a balanced answer on Quora. Most people who use Quora tend to be more intelligent, skilled and internationally-mobile themselves, and thus far more accepting of immigrants.
Most (white) Australians like immigrants, but would prefer it if they came from the US, UK, Canada, Ireland, Europe etc.
This is not because Australians are inherently racist. It's because Australians are inherently paranoid. And immigrants from the Middle East, South and East Asia in particular tend to make crappy immigrants (I'll explain what I mean by this later).
What's interesting to note is that if you're African-American or Latino, you will encounter "racism" from whites far less often in Australia than you will in the US. Why? Because they make up such a tiny ethnic group they are not seen as a threat. Immigrants from Asia (particularly China and India) on the other hand, are seen as a threat.
我想增加一个不同的视角，我匿名回答，因为我想如实讲述，而不是重复政客们使用的政治正确路线。
同时，请记住，你不太可能在Quora上得到一个平衡的答案。大多数使用Quora的人往往更聪明，更有技能，更具国际流动性，因此更容易接受移民。
大多数(白人)澳大利亚人喜欢移民，但更喜欢来自美国、英国、加拿大、爱尔兰、欧洲等国家的移民。
这并不是因为澳大利亚人天生就是种族主义者。这是因为澳大利亚人天生偏执。特别是来自中东、南亚和东亚的移民往往是差劲的移民 (我稍后会解释我的意思)。
有趣的是，如果你是非裔美国人或拉丁美洲人，你在澳大利亚遇到白人“种族主义”的频率要比在美国少得多。为什么? 因为他们是一个很小的种族群体，所以他们不被视为威胁。另一方面，来自亚洲 (特别是中国和印度) 的移民则被视为威胁。
Australia has always seen itself as a white outpost, a tiny colony surrounded by the teeming masses of Asia. We're blessed with a big, beautiful country, abundant mineral resources and excellent farmland. And we're terrified that one day, the hordes of poor Asians, living in overpopulated squalor who have been jealously eyeing off our country for decades will move in and take over our country.
It's simple math. Australia has a population of just over 21 million. Indonesia has a population of nearly 250 million. China and India have nearly 3 billion people between them.
Australians have always been, and will always be, terrified of being swamped by Asians.
Please note that I'm not necessarily talking about a military conflict. All I'm talking about is the white population of Australia being diluted to the point of irrelevance.
Also, please note that this is not irrational and is a common feeling in virtually every country on earth, it's just that Australia's dominant ethnic group is shrinking a lot faster than in most other countries, and thus this feeling is more acute. For example, the PRC has a deliberate policy of Sinification in Tibet and is essentially breeding ethnic Tibetans out of their own country by encouraging mass migration by ethnic Han Chinese. Similarly, many Southeast-Asian countries are distrustful of Chinese for the same reason. If Tibet, why not Australia?
Secondly - migrants from Asian countries typically make "crappy" migrants. Most Australians do not view non-whites as inferior or anything like that - so I don't mean that term in a lesser way.
What I mean is that migrants from non-white/western countries face MUCH higher barriers to integration than people from the US, UK, Europe etc. And as a result, often form ghetto communities. This exacerbates the problem.
首先，一些背景知识:
澳大利亚一直把自己视为一个白人前哨站，一个被大量亚洲人包围的小殖民地。我们的国土辽阔美丽，矿产资源丰富，耕地优良。我们害怕有一天，成群结队的贫穷亚洲人会搬进来接管我们的国家，他们生活在人口过多的肮脏环境中，几十年来一直嫉妒地盯着我们的国家。
这是简单的数学。澳大利亚的人口只有2100多万。印度尼西亚有近2.5亿人口。中国和印度共有近30亿人口。
澳大利亚人一直、也将永远害怕被亚洲人淹没。
请注意，我说的不一定是军事冲突。我说的是，澳大利亚的白人人口被稀释到了无足轻重的地步。
此外，请注意，这并不是不理性的，而且在地球上几乎每个国家都是一种普遍的感觉，只是澳大利亚的主要族裔比大多数其他国家萎缩得更快，因此这种感觉更尖锐。...(涉及抹黑XZ汉化内容)...
第二，来自亚洲国家的移民通常是“差劲”的移民。大多数澳大利亚人并不认为非白人低人一等或诸如此类——所以我并不是在贬低这个词。
我的意思是，来自非白人/西方国家的移民面临的融合障碍比来自美国、英国、欧洲等国家的移民高得多，因此，他们往往会形成贫民区社区。这加剧了问题。
1. Language
The common belief is that migrants from Asian countries tend to speak English to a lesser standard than migrants from European countries. Note that accent is important too. Many ethnic Chinese struggle to pronounce English correctly because it contains certain sounds like "th" that just don't exist in Mandarin or Cantonese. Many Indians struggle to pronounce "v"s that occur in the middle of a word.
Australians feel that everyone who wants to live in Australia should be able to speak English well. We're forgiving of tourists, but far less so of permanent migrants.
2. Culture
This is far more subtle so I will provide a few examples. In China as in many Asian countries, slurping liquid-foods like soups and noodles is perfectly acceptable. In Australia, it's viewed as rude and disgusting. Similarly, when one has a cold or a runny nose, the expectation is that you will get a tissue and blow your nose, rather than constantly sniffing.
It's seen as incredibly rude to just shove past someone instead of waiting behind them politely or, if necessary, saying "excuse me" as you pass.
3. Skills
Australians typically regard qualifications from non-western universities as of lesser quality. In many cases, this is totally justified.
Worse, the perceived lack of soft skills - being friendly and conversational - leads to an unconscious preference for locals over immigrants.
So again, getting passed over for a job interview because your surname is "Wong" or "Patel" or "Mohammed" is not necessarily because of racism, just the employer making an assumption that your soft skills and ability to build rapport with co-workers and clients is not the same as a "Smith" or a "Johnson".
以下是一些障碍:
1. 语言
人们普遍认为，来自亚洲国家的移民英语水平往往低于来自欧洲国家的移民。注意，口音也很重要。许多华人很难正确地发音英语，因为它包含了一些在普通话或广东话中不存在的音，比如“th”。许多印度人很难发单词中间的“v”音。
澳大利亚人认为每个想在澳大利亚生活的人都应该能说一口流利的英语。我们对游客是宽容的，但对永久移民就不那么宽容了。
2. 文化
这要微妙得多，所以我将提供一些例子。在中国和许多亚洲国家一样，咕噜咕噜地吃汤和面条等流食是完全可以接受的。在澳大利亚，这被认为是粗鲁和恶心的。同样地，当一个人感冒或流鼻涕时，人们会期望你拿张纸巾擦掉鼻涕，而不是不停地擤鼻子。
仅仅从某人身边挤过去，而不是礼貌地在他们身后等着，或者，如果有必要，在你经过时说“对不起”，这被认为是非常粗鲁的。
3.技能
澳大利亚人通常认为非西方大学的学历质量较差。在许多情况下，这是完全合理的。
更糟糕的是，缺乏软技能：友好和健谈。这导致人们潜意识中偏爱当地人而不是移民。
因此，再次强调，因为你姓“黄”、“帕特尔”或“穆罕默德”而错过面试并不一定是因为种族主义，只是雇主认为你的软技能以及与同事和客户建立融洽关系的能力不同于“史密斯”或“约翰逊”。
Again, this is not without some truth in it. There are many suburbs on major cities like Melbourne and Sydney that are effectively ethnic ghettos. Hurstville/Chatswood in Sydney have a very high proportion of Chinese residents. The thing that infuriates many Australians is that a lot of the signage is not in English, and that (white) Australians are treated as second class citizens in their own country - e.g. being overcharged or being forced to wait longer at restaurants. There are community newspapers that are not in English. White Australians end up feeling like second-class citizens in their own country. This fuels resentment.
Many Australians also look at businesses owned by immigrants and get the impression that they only want to hire employees of their own ethnicity and do not actually want to hire Australians.
第三，有一种看法认为，移民想要生活在澳大利亚的所有好处(高水平的生活、医疗/教育、高工资)，但实际上并不想融入或成为澳大利亚人。
再说一遍，这并非没有道理。墨尔本和悉尼等大城市的许多郊区实际上是少数民族聚居区。悉尼的赫斯特维尔/查茨伍德的中国居民比例非常高。让许多澳大利亚人感到愤怒的是，很多标识都不是英文的，而且(白人)澳大利亚人在自己的国家被视为二等公民——比如被收取过高的费用，或者被迫在餐馆等更长的时间。有些社区报纸不是英文的。在自己的国家，澳大利亚白人最终会觉得自己是二等公民。这助长了不满。
许多澳大利亚人也看到移民拥有的企业，给人的印象是，他们只想雇佣自己种族的员工，实际上不想雇佣澳大利亚人。
So in summary, there is a bit of cultural arrogance on both sides. Even from the tone of your question, there appears to be some.
You think you're bringing all these fabulous skills to help build up a young and growing country.
The average Australian sees a guy who speaks English poorly, with a qualification from a second-rate university who is going to come to Australia, live in an ethnic suburb so he doesn't have to speak English or make friends outside his own ethnic group, bring over all his hundred relatives - none of whom speak English. You're going to send your kids to the local public school and make use of public healthcare - all of which is funded by (white) Australian tax payers. And if Australia is ever invaded, are you going to join the army and defend your adopted country? Or bugger off back home? And when it comes time to vote, are you going to vote for the guy who is best for the country...or the guy who looks like you?
So again, Australians aren't racist exactly, we're just paranoid.
****
最后，还有政治和公民身份。按照国际标准，我们的公民法非常宽松。如果你问普通的出租车司机 (通常是印度人、巴基斯坦人或孟加拉国人)，他们会告诉你他们是公民，而且他们投票给左翼政党。为什么? 因为他们被认为对移民更好。
所以总而言之，双方都有一点文化傲慢。即使从你提问的语气来看，似乎也有一些。
你以为你把所有这些惊人的技能都带到了这个年轻而不断发展的国家。
普通澳大利亚人看到一个英语说得不好的人，拥有二流大学的资格，将要来澳大利亚，住在一个少数民族聚居的郊区，这样他就不必说英语，也不必结交自己民族以外的朋友，把他所有的一百个亲戚都带过来——他们都不会说英语。 你将把你的孩子送到当地的公立学校并使用公共医疗保健——所有这些都是由（白人）澳大利亚纳税人资助的。 如果澳大利亚被入侵，你会参军并保卫你的收养国吗？ 还是回家去？ 到了投票的时候，你会投票给对国家最有利的人吗？还是那个和你长得像的人？
所以，澳大利亚人并不是种族主义者，我们只是偏执狂。
And you'll find that if you can prove that you genuinely love this country and want to be a part of it, we'll accept you with open arms.
Just please understand the average Australian's point of view, and please go out of your way to integrate and become Australian. If you don't speak English or your English is heavily accented - work on improving it. Learn a few jokes. Wear Australian/Western clothes. Watch some Australian movies. Watch - and follow - some Australian sports. Be friendly and polite and ask questions about Australia, it's people and culture and history.
Do this: knock on a neighbor's door and say "Hey - my name's Sanjeev but everyone calls me Sam. We're new to the area - but we're organising a barbecue and a few beers for State of Origin next week and we're inviting the whole street. Why don't you come around? Bring your friends, I'd love to meet them. And I really, really can't wait to see the Blues get smashed. By the way, want a beer?"
It is very, very difficult for any Australian to dislike someone who does that...
尽管如此，我们实际上对移民非常开放。我有许多来自世界各地的朋友住在这里，他们热爱这里。
你会发现，如果你能证明你真的爱这个国家，想成为其中的一员，我们会张开双臂接受你。
请理解普通澳大利亚人的观点，并尽你所能融入并成为澳大利亚人。如果你不会说英语或者你的英语口音很重，那就努力提高吧。学几个笑话。穿澳大利亚/西方服装。看一些澳大利亚电影。观看并关注澳大利亚的一些运动。友好礼貌地询问有关澳大利亚的问题，它的人民、文化和历史。
这样做：敲邻居家的门，说“嘿，我叫桑吉夫，但大家都叫我山姆。我们是新来的，但我们下周要为原住国居民举办一场烧烤和几杯啤酒，我们邀请了整条街的人。你为什么不过来？带上你的朋友，我很高兴见到他们。我真的，真的迫不及待想看蓝军大败。对了，要啤酒吗?”
任何澳大利亚人都很难不喜欢这样做的人。
I really like immigrants. They grow Australia in every way.
Anyone who makes the effort to get here wants to have a better life. They almost always contribute positively to the community. That can't be said for non-immigrants.
We should support immigrants with our best language education and the same work placement services provided to non-immigrants. Why? Because it is a great investment.
We should not deport someone for being an illegal immigrant if they can get themselves gainfully employed while their case is waiting to be examined. Gainful employment would include unpaid childcare, landcare, communitycare, charity work etc. I don't care if their claim to employment is sweeping the steps of a beautiful mosque, if it means they get up, get dressed and get into it each day.
The government should educate the wider population about how to cope when you find yourself in a corner of Australia where people that look like you are the minority.
If immigrants can make a suburb into a tiny version of Sri Lanka - wow free travel - awesome. That should be celebrated. They're still Aussies.
If immigrants want to coach their kids to excel at school and they fill the top university places - they worked harder than me - awesome. They are still Aussies.
If immigrants want to go to the beach wearing a head-to-toe black dress that only shows their eyes - that's different - awesome. (Although they should help solve whatever official identification and security problems it causes.) They are still Aussies.
Fear is costing us so much and is responsible for so much misery.
我真的很喜欢移民。 他们以各种方式发展澳大利亚。
任何努力来到这里的人都想拥有更好的生活。他们几乎总是对社区做出积极贡献。这对非移民来说是不可能的。
我们应该为移民提供最好的语言教育，为非移民提供同样的就业安置服务。为什么？因为这是一项巨大的投资。
如果他们在等待审查期间能够获得有报酬的工作，我们不应该以非法移民为由将他们驱逐出境。 有报酬的工作将包括无偿的儿童保育、土地护理、社区护理、慈善工作等。我不在乎他们声称的就业是不是在清扫一座美丽清真寺的台阶，是不是意味着他们每天起床、穿好衣服、走进清真寺。
当你发现自己身处澳大利亚的一个角落，在那里，长得像你的人是少数民族时，政府应该教育更广泛的人群如何应对。
如果移民能把一个郊区变成一个小版本的斯里兰卡，并能免费旅行，太棒了。这应该值得庆祝。他们还是澳大利亚人。
如果移民想让他们的孩子在学校里表现出色，并且他们能进入顶尖大学，他们比我更努力，那就太棒了。他们仍然是澳大利亚人。
如果移民想穿着从头到脚只露出眼睛的黑色连衣裙去海滩，那是不同的 ，太棒了。（尽管他们应该帮助解决它引起的任何官方身份和安全问题。）他们仍然是澳大利亚人。
恐惧让我们付出了太多的代价，造成了太多的痛苦。
Australia is a great place, and has had a lot of immigration. Indeed it still takes in a hell of a lot, and its population is still growing for that reason.
That said, despite its enormous size, it actually doesn't have that much liveable land - critically there isn't much water. The cities are becoming overcrowded and ridiculously expensive. The infrastructure is overloaded and our public transport systems are something of a disgrace. Our political system is rather confrontational (not as bad as USA) and panders rather too much to big business (also not as bad as USA). It (or at least the incumbent government) has failed to adequately grasp the nettle of climate change, despite being the sunniest country in the world.
Immigrants do tend to be blamed for some of these problems. Certainly they have pushed up the price of housing, and because they tend to live in cities, they definitely add to overcrowding. This happens in the abstract, not to any specific person.
Immigrants that take the trouble to learn the language and culture of their destination country are usually well accepted anywhere, and this is true in Oz. Ones that do not, form enclaves and - especially - refuse to learn the local language and customs tend to be disliked. (I found encountering a lady who had lived in Australia for decades unable to speak English quite offensive, personally).
In business, a large proportion of people are indeed immigrants, or the children of immigrants. This is normal and well accepted. Discrimination is unlikely, and indeed illegal.
As an immigrant myself (from UK), I have experienced no problems besides ribbing for being a "pommie bastard". This can get tiresome, but is hardly the end of the world.
So on the whole it's a great country for a skilled migrant. Enjoy.
澳大利亚是个很棒的地方，有很多移民。事实上，它仍然吸收了大量的人口，因此它的人口还在增长。
这就是说，尽管其面积巨大，但实际上没有那么多可居住的土地——关键是没有太多的水。这些城市正变得拥挤不堪，成本高得离谱。基础设施超载，我们的公共交通系统有点丢脸。我们的政治体制相当对抗（不像美国那么糟糕），太迎合大企业（也不像美国那么糟糕）。尽管它是世界上阳光最充足的国家，但它（或至少是现任政府）未能充分应对气候变化的棘手问题。
这些问题中的一些确实往往归咎于移民。当然，他们（移民）推高了房价，而且因为他们倾向于住在城市，这无疑加剧了拥挤。这是抽象的，不是针对任何特定的人。
不辞辛劳地学习目的地国语言和文化的移民通常在任何地方都能被广泛接受，在澳大利亚也是如此。那些不这样做，形成飞地，尤其是拒绝学习当地语言和习俗的移民往往不受欢迎。（就我个人而言，我觉得遇到一位在澳大利亚生活了几十年不会说英语的女士非常令人反感）。
在商业领域，很大一部分人确实是移民，或移民的子女。这是正常的，也是可以接受的。歧视是不可能的，而且确实是非法的。
作为一名移民（来自英国），除了被嘲笑为“英国杂种”之外，我没有遇到任何问题。这可能会令人厌倦，但并不是世界末日。
所以总的来说，对于技术移民来说，这是一个伟大的国家。享受它吧。
I'm an Aussie but not a migrant. I taught ESL in Sydney for two years and have mostly foreign friends.
The short answer is that in large cities like Sydney and Melbourne nobody cares. Note that 25% of Australian nationals were born in another country. 50% of the population was born in another country or have at least one parent who was.
Will you encounter negativity? It's possible but unlikely if you're in Sydney or Melbourne. As a young country and as a nation of migrants becoming an Aussie is very accessible to anyone. In most countries, no matter how long you live there you'll never be considered a local. Also look at the ethnic Koreans born in Japan (Zainichi) who have been there for generations but in some cases don't have citizenship.
In Australia, if someone has been in Aus for a few years, says they want to stay and they seem to love living in the country then I'd say: "You're an Aussie". It's that simple.
I think the hardest part is making Aussie friends. Most people have their friends group and making friends as adults can be hard. But it's not impossible.
Many Aussies are concerned about the future of the country and if we're educating the next generation and preparing them for the future. I think we're falling short there. But nobody blames legal migrants for that. We blame our government and different industry groups for holding us back. So it's a concern on that level, not on an individual basis.
我是澳大利亚人，但不是移民。我在悉尼教了两年英语，朋友大多是外国人。
简而言之，在悉尼和墨尔本这样的大城市，没人在乎。值得注意的是，25%的澳大利亚国民是在其他国家出生的。50%的人出生在另一个国家，或者父母中至少有一方在另一个国家。
你会遇到否定回答吗? 这是可能的。如果你在悉尼或墨尔本，但不太可能。作为一个年轻的移民国家，任何人都很容易成为澳大利亚人。在大多数国家，不管你在那里住多久，你都不会被认为是当地人。再看看在日本出生的朝鲜人，他们已经在日本生活了好几代，但在某些情况下没有公民身份。
在澳大利亚，如果有人已经在澳大利亚生活了几年，他们说想留下来，而且他们似乎喜欢在这个国家生活，那么我会说:“你是澳大利亚人。”就是这么简单。
我认为最难的部分是结交澳大利亚朋友。大多数人都有自己的朋友圈，成年后交朋友会很困难。但这不是不可能的。
许多澳大利亚人担心国家的未来，担心我们是否在教育下一代，让他们为未来做好准备。我认为我们在这方面做得不够。但没有人会为此责怪合法移民。我们责怪我们的政府和不同的行业组织阻碍了我们的发展。所以这是一个政府层面上的问题，而不是个人层面的问题。