QA问答：从美国搬到澳大利亚，我是否放弃了太多的自由？
Am I giving up too much freedom by moving to Australia from the United States?
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网友：从美国搬到澳大利亚，我是否放弃了太多的自由？这不是有多少自由的问题，而是拥有什么样的自由的问题。美国无疑拥有更多的个人自由，理论上听起来不错。澳大利亚有更多的个人限制和控制，总的来说，这也使得澳大利亚人拥有更多的自由......
正文翻译
Am I giving up too much freedom by moving to Australia from the United States?
从美国搬到澳大利亚，我是否放弃了太多的自由？
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Am I giving up too much freedom by moving to Australia from the United States?
It’s not a question about the amount of freedom but a question of what type of freedom.
The U.S.A. has undoubtedly more individual freedoms. Sounds great in theory. Australia has more individual restrictions and controls in general which collectively give Australians more freedom.
Australians are restricted in their use of firearms that gives Australians the collective freedom of movement. The Australian government’s restrictions on the stock market means Australians are less vulnerable to boom and bust. The Australian government’s restrictions on banks means Australians are less vulnerable to loss. The Australian government’s restrictions on business means Australians are less vulnerable to Ponzi schemes. The Australian government’s higher taxation means Australians are less vulnerable healthcare heartache. The Australian government’s greater restrictions generally means Australians are more free to enjoy life.
Remember, there is no such thing as being free - it’s only the size of the walls that imprison you. The greatest leverage for freedom is wealth. Poverty kills freedom.
So do you want to be free to carry guns, blow your money, be poor and argue about individual rights or do you want to be happy and go with the flow ?.
从美国搬到澳大利亚，我是否放弃了太多的自由？
这不是有多少自由的问题，而是拥有什么样的自由的问题。
美国无疑拥有更多的个人自由，理论上听起来不错。澳大利亚有更多的个人限制和控制，总的来说，这也使得澳大利亚人拥有更多的自由。
澳大利亚人的枪支使用受到限制，这给了澳大利亚人集体行动的自由。澳大利亚政府对股市的限制意味着，澳大利亚人不太容易受到股市兴衰的影响。澳大利亚政府对银行的限制意味着澳大利亚人不太容易遭受损失。澳大利亚政府对商业的限制意味着澳大利亚人不太容易受到庞氏骗局的影响。澳大利亚政府的高税收意味着，澳大利亚人在医疗保健方面不那么容易受到伤害。澳大利亚政府更严格的限制通常意味着澳大利亚人更自由地享受生活。
记住，世上没有所谓的自由——囚禁你的只是墙的大小。财富是自由的最大杠杆，贫困会导致你失去自由。
那么，你是想自由地携带枪支、挥霍钱财、过着贫穷的生活、为个人权利而争论呢，还是想随波逐流、快乐地生活呢？
I lived in California from 1978 until 1995. Then due to losing custody of my children, my home, my business I returned to Australia, where the Australian Family court went to bat for me and got me a fair deal. I was able to pay my child support from Australia.
For many years I was angry at the US for treating me so badly. But one day I had an epiphany:- It wasn’t about me, the US treats everybody badly. Their own citizens, their neighbours, other countries, the world. The US doesn’t give a shit about anybody or anything except profit for the elite. After a lifetime of listening to Americans talk about freedom I have to say that you don’t even know what freedom is.
Trust me, you will live a freer life in Australia. Free from the fear of getting sick, free from Medical bankruptcy, freedom from life on the streets, free from “at will”employment , less elitism, more opportunity, more equality, freedom from getting shot and freedom from worrying about getting shot.
So how did you manage to get an Australian visa? Tell me about it.
我从1978年到1995年住在加州。后来，由于失去了孩子的监护权，失去了房子、生意，我回到了澳大利亚，在那里，澳大利亚法庭为我辩护，为我争取到了公平的待遇。我可以在澳大利亚支付孩子的抚养费。
多年来，我对美国对待我如此恶劣的态度感到愤怒。但有一天，我恍然大悟：这与我无关，美国对待所有人都很糟糕。对待他们自己的公民，他们的邻居，其他国家，全世界的人都是一样。美国不关心任何人或任何事，只关心精英的利益。在听了一辈子美国人谈论自由之后，我不得不说，到最后你甚至不知道自由是什么。
相信我，你在澳大利亚会过得更自由。在澳大利亚你远离了生病的恐惧，远离了医疗破产，远离了街头生活，远离了“随意”的就业，更少的精英主义，更多的机会，更多的平等，远离了被枪击的“自由”。
那你是怎么拿到澳大利亚签证的？告诉我吧。
I live in a beautiful part of New South Wales.
When Americans mention their pay, in the same breath they'll also add the health insurance package that comes with it. One thing that strikes me about the land of the free is how much they fear “socialism” as a controlling force and view universal health care as a socialist threat to their freedom. They've completely bought the propaganda. I'm in a few online support groups for parents raising kids with special needs and I'm always struck by the amount of people raising children with complex needs, stuck in jobs they hate with bad conditions…because they are completely dependent on their job health insurance. And parents will do just about anything to provide their kids the best care they can. It's so sad. They aren't free to pursue their dreams or chase their goals. They aren't free to assert their rights in the workplace. They aren't even free to spend precious time with their children. :(
我住在新南威尔士州一个美丽的地方。
当美国人提到他们的工资时，他们会同时加上相应的健康保险。在这片自由的土地上，让我印象深刻的一件事是，他们是多么害怕“社会主义”成为一种控制力量，并将全民医保视为社会主义对他们自由的威胁。他们的民众也完全相信了这样的宣传。我参加了一些为有特殊需求的抚养孩子的父母提供在线支持的团体，我总是对那些有复杂需求的抚养孩子的人感到震惊，他们在恶劣的条件下从事着自己讨厌的工作……因为他们完全依赖于他们的健康保险。父母会尽一切努力为他们的孩子提供最好的照顾，这是如此悲伤，他们不能自由地追求自己的梦想或目标。他们不能自由地在工作场所维护自己的权利。他们甚至没有空闲时间和孩子们在一起。
Hi Alison.
In the good old days when the Trade unxs had power in the USA.
(And also abused that power)
The USA had a system where the Employer of significant companies paid the Health Insurance for the employee and their family.
Along came “Greed is good” mentality and put health insurance & costs back on the individual.
The USA has the BEST health services that money can buy.
And the worst for a developed country and economy if you can’t pay the cost.
嗨，艾莉森。
当工会在美国拥有权力的时候，那个阶段的生活时光很美好。
（他们也滥用了这种权力）
美国有一个体制，大公司的雇主为雇员和他们的家庭支付健康保险。
随之而来的是“贪婪是好的”的心态，把医疗保险和费用重新推给个人。
美国有金钱能买到的最好的医疗服务。
对于一个发达国家和经济来说，如果你无法支付成本，那将是最糟糕的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I don’t know about it being a threat to anyone’s freedom exactly
But know this about it.
The cost to taxpayers IS -monumental-.
我不认为这会威胁到任何人的自由。
但是要知道这一点。
纳税人付出的代价是巨大的。
For anyone who is willing to look at FACTS in forming their opinions, there is no shadow of a doubt that the average person in the United States does not have as good a life as the average person in Northern Europe, Australia, New Zealand and a host of other countries. It is also a FACT that our infrastructure, the basic guts of our society, is falling apart, never mind being improved. Our political situation has been deteriorating since Newt Gingrich. We are now basically at war with ourselves in every way except for gunfire. People in this country have a choice to make - elect people who want to make life better for everybody except the super-rich (they don’t need the help obviously) or continue doing what we are doing. Anybody willing to look honestly can see where that path is leading us.
对于那些愿意根据事实来形成自己观点的人来说，毫无疑问，美国的普通人的生活没有北欧、澳大利亚、新西兰和许多其他国家的普通人好。这也是一个事实，我们的基础设施，我们社会的基本内脏，正在崩溃，更不用说改善了。自从纽特·金里奇以来，我们的政治局势一直在恶化。我们现在基本上是在和自己打仗，除了炮火。这个国家的人民可以做出选择——选择那些除了超级富豪（他们显然不需要帮助）以外想让每个人的生活更好的人，或者继续做我们正在做的事情。任何愿意诚实地看待这个问题的人都能看到这条道路将把我们引向何方。
Yes I agree. I still have family in the US, and I hope it comes together soon. Thank you Chris
是的，我同意。我在美国还有家人，我希望能尽快团聚。谢谢你Chris
My son (American) worked in Australia for a while and tried to go back about a year ago and was denied, despite a recommendation from his former employer
我的儿子（美国人）曾在澳大利亚工作过一段时间，一年前他试图回去，但被拒绝了，尽管他的前雇主推荐了他，但还是被拒绝了。
We are so short of workers and all they choose are the elite, the Doctors and Engineers and like that. Farmers are screaming for workers, Miners are screaming for workers and we have a thousand refugees sitting on their ass in detention centres. Both my daughters live in California and I keep telling them, don’t let those Australian passports expire. Sometimes my own country exasperates me because I am a citizen of the world, and my countrymen are a bunch of xenophobic isolationists.
Plus we have 40,000 Australians out there who have been trying to come home for a year. I don’t know why they just don’t vaccinate them and bring them home.
我们非常缺乏工人，而他们选择的都是精英，医生和工程师之类的。农民们哭喊着要工人，矿工们哭喊着要工人，而我们有一千名难民坐在拘留中心里。我的两个女儿都住在加州，我一直告诉她们，不要让那些澳大利亚护照过期。有时我自己的国家激怒了我，因为我是世界公民，而我的同胞是一群排外的孤立主义者。
此外，我们还有4万澳大利亚人，这一年来他们一直想回到澳大利亚。我不知道他们为什么不给那些人接种疫苗，然后把他们带回家。
Having lived in the US and being Canadian it really shocked me to see how little self awareness people have when it comes to the constraints that the US puts on them with regards to how they think about their country and what criticisms that you can make about
This was true even of the people who I knew. At the end of the day they were all compelled to point out that, not withstanding their criticisms, the US is the greatest country on earth. As a Canadian the very idea that there is a best country makes no sense to me
作为一名加拿大人，我曾在美国生活过，当涉及到美国对他们国家的看法，以及你可以对他们的国家提出的批评时，我真的很震惊，因为我发现人们的自我意识是如此之少
即使是我认识的那些的人也是如此。最后，他们都不得不指出，尽管他们批评美国，但美国仍然是世界上最伟大的国家。作为一个加拿大人，那种认为拥有一个最好的国家的想法对我来说毫无意义
You are living under the assumption that the US is free, it's not, you have more people incarcerated in prisons than anywhere else in the world, you are easily manipulated and believe every bullshit story you're told and the only view required is the political leaning you may have, you follow religious lunatics without question and have fuck all empathy for anyone else, sorry guy, but few Americans know anything about freedom
你以为美国是自由的，其实不是，你在监狱里被关押的人比世界上任何地方都多，你很容易被操纵，相信别人告诉你的每一个扯淡的故事，唯一的就是你可能拥有的政治倾向，你会毫无疑问地跟随宗教疯子，并且对任何人都没有同情心，抱歉，伙计，但是很少有美国人知道什么是自由
Boris Johnson gave up his American citizenship pretty quick in 2014.
Not good being Prime Minister when you carry an American passport. And he does’nt pay American taxes on his earning’s either.
鲍里斯·约翰逊在2014年很快放弃了美国国籍。
拿着美国护照当首相可不好，而且他的收入也不用在美国纳税。
In Australia it was discovered that a number of politicians held foreign citizenships, and that is a big no no per the constitution. 15 Federal politicians had to step down while the mess was sorted. (out of about 225) Most renounced their foreign citizenships. Some had to face reelection after they had renounced the foreign citizenship.
在澳大利亚，人们发现一些政客拥有外国公民身份，这是宪法中一个很大的禁忌。15名联邦政客不得不在混乱得到解决时下台。（在225名外籍人士中）大多数人放弃了外国国籍。有些人在放弃外国国籍后不得不面临再次竞选。
Whatb Americans do notbrealise is thatbthe American Constuitution was written by Rich and Infleuential people [usually FREEMASONS] for the benefit of Rich ands Influential people who were also usually Freemasons. If Americans really cared to study their own history they might be very surprised at how many even minor rebellions against Rich and Influential People, usually Freemasons, were put down with ultimate Force by paid mercenaries. They might be surprised at how many of those rebellions wee undertaken by Black,white and WOMEN acting together, They might be surprised the The American War of Independence was NOT about the Common Man and freedom it was about the Rich and Influeniual, usually Freemasons, instigated by the French against the taxes levvied on the Rich and Powerful, usually Freemasons. The poor buggers who fought that war and did not in the main pay taxes anyway soon realised they had been conned [see above ‘re minor rebellions and add to that ‘not so minor!’.
THe American Civil War was fouight alomng the same lines. Most of the LABOURING Classes in the North were no better than poorly paid, very poorly paid, slaves themselves.
The Civil War did little to improve the lot of Slave classes in the South and an awful lot to make the lot of the supposedly ‘free’ Afro-American labourers in the North a bloody sight worse.
That is not to say that America should not have becopme an independent nation.
美国人不明白的是，美国宪法是由富人和有影响力的人（通常是共济会成员）为富人和有影响力的人（通常也是共济会成员）的利益而写的。如果美国人真的愿意研究他们自己的历史，他们可能会非常惊讶，有多少针对有钱有势的人（通常是共济会成员）的小叛乱，然而被雇佣兵用武力镇压了。他们可能会惊讶于黑人、白人和女性共同发起的反抗，他们可能会感到惊讶，美国独立战争不是关于普通人的自由，而是关于富人和有影响力的人的自由，通常是共济会成员，由法国人煽动反对对富人和有影响力的人征收税收，通常是共济会成员。那些参加了那场战争，但基本上没有纳税的可怜的家伙们很快就意识到他们被骗了（见上面的那些小叛乱，而且还不算小！）
美国内战也是沿着这条路线进行的。北方的大多数劳动阶级，他们的收入并不比奴隶高，他们的收入非常低。
南北战争并没有改善南方奴隶阶级的命运，反而使北方所谓的“自由”非裔美国劳工的命运变得更加血腥。这并不是说美国不应该成为一个独立的国家。
Its not being born there its being brought up there..I was born there brought up in england from age one…thanks to my parents.
我不是在那里出生的，而是在那里长大的。我出生在那里，从一岁起在英国长大，这要感谢我的父母。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I wonder what the Americans who move to Australia think about America now in seeing it as an outsider (outside the country) with what's happening in every way. And has Australia been a better choice for them.
我想知道那些搬到澳大利亚的美国人现在是怎么看待美国的，把它看作一个局外人，从各个方面看待正在发生的事情。澳大利亚是他们更好的选择吗？
What makes you think that Australia isn’t a free country? You should do some research on Australia, then decide whether you would want and like to live there.
If you are one of those who think that the only “free” country in the world is the US, you’re sadly very mistaken.
是什么让你认为澳大利亚不是一个自由的国家？你应该对澳大利亚做一些研究，然后决定你是否想要在那里生活。
如果你是那些认为世界上唯一的“自由”国家是美国的人之一，那你就大错特错了。
I’m a yank. Married a New Zealander. I spent 11 years in New Zealand, then 7 in Australia. I have never felt as free in the US as I did in those two countries. There are things to complain about everywhere, but on balance, I think that’s a fair assessment. I am now back in the States. Fate has a sick sense of humor). But, in about two years, I retire, and I’ll be on the next plane to NZ. So no, you will not be giving up too much freedom.
我是一个美国人。娶了一个新西兰人。我在新西兰待了11年，然后在澳大利亚待了7年。我在美国从来没有像在这两个国家那样感到自由。到处都有值得抱怨的事情，但总的来说，我认为这是一个公平的评价。我现在回到了美国。命运有一种病态的幽默感。但是，大约两年后，我退休了，我将乘下一班飞机去新西兰。所以，你不会放弃太多的自由。
America is routinely rated as one the least free countries in the Western world. The USA is a bureaucratic nightmare with multiple layers of government, multiple government agencies, an astonishing number of law enforcement officers, the world’s most profitable prison “industry” and the world’s most accomplished propaganda machine which has convinced Americans of the opposite.
Americans rarely give up freedom by moving to other Western countries.
美国经常被评为西方世界最不自由的国家之一。美国是一个官僚主义的噩梦，有多层政府、多个政府机构、数量惊人的执法人员、世界上最赚钱的监狱“工业”和世界上最成功的宣传机器，这让美国人相信相反的观点。
美国人很少因为移居其他西方国家而放弃自由。
The most obvious differences that I know of are that, like all developed countries other than the United States, Australia has government healthcare and no right to own guns.
据我所知，最明显的区别是，像除美国以外的所有发达国家一样，澳大利亚有政府医保，没有拥有枪支的权利。
Nobody will shoot you.
Get sick you will be treated and you won't have to sell a kidney.
We drive on the correct side of the road left.
If you go to the Outback, hire a 4wd take 4litres per person per day, if you unfortunately breakdown stay with your vehicle, the nearest inhabitant may be 200km away. Take a satellite phone or an EPIRB with you, they may save your life. Don't drive at night, that's when kangaroos are about, if you hit one and it goes through your windscreen, you will be damaged.
Aussies are friendly, if they like you a lot, they will stir you up, which means they really like you, reply in kind, they will like you more.
在澳大利亚没有人会向你开枪。
如果你生病了，你会得到治疗，而且你不用卖肾。
我们在路的左边开车行驶。
如果你去内陆，租一辆四轮驱动车，每人每天4升油，如果你的车不幸出了故障，就待在你的车里，最近的居民可能在200公里之外。带上卫星电话或EPIRB，它们可能会救你的命。不要在晚上开车，那是袋鼠出没的时候，如果你撞到袋鼠，它会穿过你的挡风玻璃，你会受伤的。
澳洲人很友好，如果他们很喜欢你，他们会刺激你，这意味着他们真的喜欢你，如果你以同样的方式回应，他们会更喜欢你。
First of all at the moment you would not be able to move to Australia.
Australia has closed its borders except for Australian citizens.
If you do move to Australia you will gain more freedom than you can imagine.
You will not be able to carry a gun but you will not be shot by anybody on the street including the police.
You will have free healthcare.
You will be paid a living wage and you will not have to work more than one job.
You will get 4 weeks paid holiday and 2 weeks paid sick leave a year.
首先，目前你还不能搬到澳大利亚去。
澳大利亚关闭了边境，除非你是澳大利亚人民。
如果你真的搬到澳大利亚，你将获得比你想象的更多的自由。
你不能携带枪支，但你不会在街上被任何人射击，包括警察。
你会有免费医疗
你会得到足够维持生活的工资，而且你不需要做多于一份的工作。
你每年有4周的带薪假期和2周的带薪病假。
If you are a US citizen or permanent resident, then the main problem you will have is that you still need to file US taxes even if you live and work in Australia. US tax laws make it exceptionally difficult and expensive for Americans living outside the US to either own property or save money for their own retirement.
Otherwise I do not see any problem with living in Australia. I have visited several times and it is a beautiful country.
如果你是美国公民或永久居民，那么你将面临的主要问题是，即使你在澳大利亚生活和工作，你仍然需要提交美国税收。美国税法使得居住在美国以外的美国人要想拥有房产或为自己的退休生活存钱变得异常困难和昂贵。
除此之外，我认为住在澳大利亚没有任何问题。我去过几次，这是一个美丽的国家。
然而。
I am currently in Victoria but moving to Ravensthorpe WA soon - that’s actually a hard question, there are many things i enjoyed about the USA and one of them being the Freedom and little real government intervention. Its been a culture shock returning , the Govt in Australia is heavy handed and think nothing about legislating against peoples freedoms, after having been protected by all manner of laws and rights its a real shock to think they don't exist in Australia, im not saying its a nation of barbarous heathens, but its sort of frightening how easy the govt has sold off many critical things and all aussies paying for it.
But that aside, its a nation of good people , there's opportunity galore and the country does have many many beautiful places. The food is great, the produce is world beating and the freedom for camping and enjoying the outdoors is unsurpassed.
我现在住在维多利亚，但很快就要搬到雷文斯索普了——这实际上是个很难回答的问题，我喜欢美国的很多东西，其中之一就是美国的自由和很少的政府干预。这是一种文化冲击的回归，澳大利亚政府很严厉，从不考虑立法来反对人们的自由，在受到各种法律和权利的保护后，想到澳大利亚不存在自由真是令人震惊。我不是说这是一个野蛮的异教徒的国家，但有点可怕的是，政府很容易就卖掉了很多重要的东西，所有的澳大利亚人都会为此买单。
但除此之外，这是一个人民善良的国家，有大量的机会，这个国家确实有很多很多美丽的地方。他们的食物很棒，农产品是世界一流的，在那里露营和享受户外的自由是无与伦比的。
NO. But it does depend on your definition of freedom.
If your definition of freedom is to buy as many guns and ammo as you desire, then I guess you are giving up too much freedom.
If your definition of freedom is to not be bankrupted by medical Bill's, then no, you will have much more freedom in Australia.
If your definition of freedom is to be able to spank your child and force genital mutilation, then I guess you are giving up freedom.
If your definition of freedom is to be able to get as much education as you desire, regardless of income, you will have much more freedom.
If your definition of freedom is no mandated vacation, sick leave or parental leave and much fewer workers rights, then I guess you are.
The first time I saw the Statue of Liberty was when I was leaving the US. Lady Liberty had been a symbol of freedom to many immigrants to the US, but for me she was a harbinger of the freedom I found out of the US.
不。但这取决于你对自由的定义。
如果你对自由的定义是想买多少枪就买多少弹药，那么我猜你放弃了太多的自由。
如果你对自由的定义是不被医疗法案搞垮，那么不会，你在澳大利亚会有更多的自由。
如果你对自由的定义是能够打你的孩子和强迫切割生殖器，那么我猜你是在放弃自由。
如果你对自由的定义是无论收入多少，都能得到你想要的教育，那么，你会有更多的自由。
如果你对自由的定义是没有法定假期、病假或产假，以及更少的工人权利，那么我猜你确实失去了自由。
我第一次看到自由女神像是在我离开美国的时候。对许多美国移民来说，自由女神是自由的象征，但对我来说，她是我在美国之外发现的自由的先驱。
I personally know two people that did. One is a policeman, and the other a musician. Neither of them liked living in the US and moved back to South Australia.
Colin wasn't a policeman when he went to the states, he was a supermarket manager I used to work with years ago, he spent around 15/20 years in the States, but didn't like the violence and the risk of being shot or stabbed just for pulling someone over, or settling a dispute. He actually arrested my daughter (even though it was her that got jumped and bashed), and I told him off for being too rough. Once out of uniform, he told me that in the States, a teenage girl was likely to pull a knife or gun, and it had happened a few times on call outs. He said he was having trouble adjusting to dealing with Australians again, and relaxing and trusting people.
Brett was a musician and composer who left to try and break into the industry over there. He did make a living for around 10 years, but he just didn't like living in the US, so he came back.
我个人认识两个人。一个是警察，另一个是音乐家。他们俩都不喜欢住在美国，于是搬回了南澳大利亚。
科林去美国的时候不是警察，他是我多年前共事的超市经理，他在美国待了15到20年，但他不喜欢暴力，也不喜欢仅仅因为让人靠边停车或解决争端而被枪击或刺伤的风险。他实际上逮捕了我的女儿（尽管被殴打的人是她），我斥责他太粗暴了。一旦脱下制服，他告诉我，在美国，一个十几岁的女孩很可能会拔出刀或枪，这种情况发生过几次。他说，他在重新适应与澳大利亚人相处、放松和信任人们方面遇到了困难。
布雷特是一个音乐家和作曲家，他离开了那里，试图进入这个行业。他在美国生活了大约10年，但他只是不喜欢住在美国，所以他回来了。
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