地缘政治上来说，为什么英国想要北爱尔兰?
Geopolitically, why does the UK want Northern Ireland?
译文简介
网友：没啥特别的。北爱尔兰作为英国的一部分，没有任何地缘政治优势。而是生活在那里的人们想要什么。当爱尔兰独立时，有一些爱尔兰人不赞成独立，希望留在英国。英国不想违背他们的意愿把他们赶出去，所以同意分割爱尔兰。大多数想留在英国的人都住在北部，所以爱尔兰的一部分被分离出来，继续留在英国.....
正文翻译
Geopolitically, why does the UK want Northern Ireland?
地缘政治上来说，为什么英国想要北爱尔兰?
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The “UK” does not have a unified opinion on the subject. When Ireland split from the United Kingdom, the six counties at the northern part of the island voted to stay in the unx, chiefly because they were Protestant and did not want to be ruled by a majority Catholic government—especially considering how much power the church exercised. Northern Ireland remains in the UK because a majority of the Northern Irish want to.
Geopolitically, it's not terribly relevant. The rest of the world doesn't much care, although Irish-American idiots funded a lot of terrorism there in the 1970s.
“英国”在这个问题上没有统一的观点。当爱尔兰从英国分裂出去时，该岛北部的六个县投票支持留在联合王国，主要是因为他们是新教徒，不想被占多数的天主教政府统治——尤其是考虑到教会行使的权力。北爱尔兰留在英国是因为大多数北爱尔兰人希望留在英国。从地缘政治上讲，这并不是很重要。尽管爱尔兰裔美国人在20世纪70年代资助了很多恐怖主义，但世界其他国家并不太关心。
It doesn't particularly. There is no geopolitical advantage to Northern Ireland being part of the UK. It is about what the people living there want.
When Ireland became independent there were some Irish people that didn't favour independence and wanted to remain part of the UK. The UK didn't want to kick them out against their will, so it was agreed to partition Ireland. Most of the those that wanted to remain part of the UK lived in the north, so that part of Ireland was separated out and remained part of the UK.
Of course, there was no clean dividing line between those that wanted to remain in the UK and those that wanted independence, so plenty of people found themselves on the wrong side of the border. The way the border was drawn (which was not without controversy), the issue of republicans north of the border was a much bigger issue than unxists south of the border, which led to a lot of conflict in Northern Ireland. The UK defended against republican paramilitaries for the sake of those in Northern Ireland that wanted to be in the UK. The rest of the UK would be perfectly happy for Northern Ireland to leave if that were what the people living there wanted.
没啥特别的。北爱尔兰作为英国的一部分，没有任何地缘政治优势。而是生活在那里的人们想要什么。当爱尔兰独立时，有一些爱尔兰人不赞成独立，希望留在英国。英国不想违背他们的意愿把他们赶出去，所以同意分割爱尔兰。大多数想留在英国的人都住在北部，所以爱尔兰的一部分被分离出来，继续留在英国。当然，希望留在英国的人和希望独立的人之间并没有明确的分界线，所以很多人发现自己站在了边界的错误一边。边界划分的方式(这并不是没有争议的)，边界以北的共和党人的问题比边界以南的统一主义者的问题要大得多，这导致了北爱尔兰的许多冲突。英国为了北爱尔兰那些想留在英国的人，对共和制准军事组织进行了防御。如果北爱尔兰人民希望离开英国，英国其他地区将非常高兴。
The people of Northern Ireland obviously have self determination and have chosen to remain in the UK. That’s all anyone needs to know. It’s not a question of the UK ‘wanting’ anything.
北爱尔兰人民显然有自己的决定，并选择留在英国。这就是所有人需要知道的。这不是英国“想要”任何东西的问题。
I strongly suspect the government would love to simply hand it over to Eire. It's a massive political encumbrance as proved by the brexit shenanigans. But the people in NI, are British and the polls say they wish to remain so.
我非常怀疑英国政府会很乐意把北爱尔兰交给爱尔兰。正如英国脱欧闹剧所证明的那样，这是一个巨大的政治负担。但是在北爱的人是英国人，而且民意调查显示他们希望保持这种状态。
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It's weird that absolutely no one is stating what I thought were obvious, well known historical facts that hold true to this day.
Northern Ireland is a sort of “strategic bridgehead” in Ireland where, if there's an uprising in Ireland that threatens Britain's economic interests or security OR an invasion of Ireland by an opposing power - USA, France, Germany, Russia - whatever - Britain can simply roll troops over the border and occupy the rest of the island, making it harder for any adversary to invade the British mainland using Ireland as a staging point.
奇怪的是，居然没有人说出我认为显而易见的、众所周知的历史事实，这些事实直到今天都是正确的。北爱尔兰是爱尔兰的一个“战略桥头堡”，如果爱尔兰发生起义，威胁到英国的经济利益或安全，或者反对势力入侵爱尔兰如美国，法国，德国，俄罗斯，无论什么吧，英国都可以轻易地派遣军队越过边境并占领岛上的其余部分，这使得任何以爱尔兰为据点的敌人入侵英国大陆变得更加困难。
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Your question is based on a false premise, ie, that the UK “wants” Northern Ireland, it doesn’t work like that. The true situation is that the UK is a unx of nations who find it mutually advantageous to join together as one country. Any of the members of the unx is free to leave at any time if the majority of their population wish to do so, therefore it is not a matter of the UK wanting Northern Ireland but instead one of Northern Ireland wanting to remain part of the UK. The geopolitics in respect to the UK do not enter into what is a matter for the people of Northern Ireland alone.
你的问题基于一个错误的前提，即英国“想要”北爱尔兰，事实并非如此。真实的情况是，英国是一个由几个国组成的联盟，这些国家发现联合起来作为一个国家对双方都有利。如果大多数人希望，那联盟的任何成员国都可以在任何时候自由离开，因此，这不是英国想要北爱尔兰的问题，而是北爱尔兰想要留在英国的问题。与英国有关的地缘政治并不只涉及北爱尔兰人民的问题。
Because a majority of the people of Northern Ireland want to be part of the UK. Not a huge majority, but nonetheless a majority.
I don't think many people in the other UK nations have a very strong opinion about NI. It is welcome to stay if it wants, but if it wants to leave, we will wish it well.
After our complex imperial history, and looking at the various contested claims to territory across the world, we have come to the conclusion that self determination is the only plausibly moral way of deciding which lands should be allocated to which countries. Hong Kong, population over 5 million, didn't get the opportunity of self determination. The Falkland Islands, population about 2 thousand, did.
因为北爱尔兰的大多数人都想成为英国的一部分。虽然不是绝大多数，但仍然是多数。我不认为其他英国联邦有很多人对北爱有强烈想法。如果它想留下来，我们欢迎它，但如果它想离开，我们将祝它好运。在我们复杂的帝国主义历史之后，再看看世界各地各种有争议的领土主张，我们得出这样的结论:自决是哪些土地应该分配给哪些国家的唯一貌似合理的方式。人口超过500万的香港，没有得到自我决定的机会。人口约2000人的福克兰群岛就做到了
Geopolitically and as a population, the bulk of the UK doesn’t really want NI any more. At partition, the region carved out had an overall majority of people who were Protestant and wanted to stay part of the UK; it would have looked bad to the population closer to home to “abandon” them, and would have risked violence from thwarted unxists, every bit as much as partition brought violence from thwarted nationalists. But also the core of the area, around Belfast, had the bulk of the island’s industry and productivity.
Then the rest of the 20th century happened. The shipyards died, the wealth had always been extracted by private companies back to Britain anyway, so now the government is left supporting a bit of a post-industrial husk. The unxist population has been declining as a proportion and the nationalist population increasing until they are approaching a demographic turning point . But it would still be politically explosive – quite literally – for the Westminster government to initiate a change in status.
But they don’t have to, indeed cannot, because in 1997 they concluded the Good Friday Agreement, which puts the political future of NI in the hands of the Northern Irish. Change comes only when the majority of the Northern Irish choose it, and then cannot be stopped by Westminster. Even that might well not be entirely peaceful, but any other mechanism is pretty unthinkable now given the history. nd waits for a border poll.
地缘政治和人口上来讲，英国的主体都不再想要北爱尔兰了。在分界时，该地区的大多数人是新教徒，希望留在英国。在亲近的家人看来，“抛弃”他们是很糟糕的，他们会有被挫败的统一主义者使用暴力的风险，就像分裂导致被挫败的民族主义者使用暴力一样。但该地区的核心，贝尔法斯特周围，拥有该岛的大部分工业和生产力。然后是20世纪剩下的时间，造船厂倒闭了，财富总是被私人公司收回英国，所以现在政府支持的是一种后工业的外壳。统一主义者的人口比例一直在下降，民族主义者的人口比例一直在上升，直到他们接近比例转折点。但毫不夸张地说，对威斯敏斯特政府来说，改变这一情况将在政治上是爆炸性的。但他们不需要，实际上也不能，因为他们在1997年签订了《贝尔法斯特协议》，该协议将北爱尔兰的政治未来置于北爱尔兰人的手中。只有当大多数北爱尔兰人选择改变的时候，改变才会到来，而且威斯敏斯特不会阻止。即使这样也可能不会完全和平，但考虑到历史，任何其他机制都是不可想象的。
The people of Northern Ireland wish to remain within the United Kingdom. If that changes they will let us know and they will be cut adrift to fend for themselves.
北爱尔兰人民希望留在联合王国。如果情况有所改变，他们会让我们知道，然后他们就会被抛弃，去自谋生路。
During the centuries when Western Europe was a cockpit of great power conflict, the Protestant settler colony in Ireland was an important bulwark against any Spanish, French or German plans to use Ireland as a base against Britain. In the peaceful Europe since WWII, Ireland has had the good fortune to become a geopolitical backwater once more. This is one reason why Britain has lost geopolitical interest in Northern Ireland.
A second is that NI has declined from an important industrial region to a post-industrial, post-conflict weak economy, highly dependent on subsidies.
A third is that many British people associate NI with a vicious but little understood tribal conflict in which even the supposedly pro-British side often seem like homophobic, bigotted, intransigent religious fundamentalists .
几个世纪以来，西欧一直是大国冲突的战场，爱尔兰的新教殖民地，是防止西班牙、法国或德国计划利用爱尔兰作为对抗英国的重要堡垒。在二战后和平的欧洲，爱尔兰有幸再次成为地缘政治的一潭死水。这是英国对北爱尔兰失去地缘政治兴趣的原因之一。第二个原因是，北爱已经从一个重要的工业地区下降到一个后工业、后冲突时期的疲弱经济体，高度依赖补贴。第三个原因是，许多英国人将北爱与一场恶性但鲜为人知的部落冲突联系在一起，在这场冲突中，即使是所谓的亲英一方也常常看起来像是憎恶同性恋、顽固、不妥协的原教旨主义者。
Historically, it gave the UK a base from which to put down both Irish & Scottish rebellion (keeping the Catholics under control).
With the EU snapping at us and Scottish Independence being muted, I imagine that the UK is glad to have it as once again it could serve as a base to neuter an Independent Scotland or keep the EU from the door.
Ultimately it is for the people of Northern Ireland to determine its destiny
历史上，北爱尔兰给了英国一个镇压爱尔兰和苏格兰叛乱的基地(控制天主教)。
随着欧盟对我们怒目而视，苏格兰独立也被压制，我想，英国会很高兴拥有北爱，因为它可以再一次充当一个基地，来压制想独立的苏格兰，或者把欧盟挡在门外。最终，北爱尔兰人民要决定自己的命运。
I am not sure that we do.
However the present government enjoy the support of the NI parties in Westminster.
Most of the rest of the uk are not entirely in tune with the politics of NI but believe in the democratic will of the NI population to decide.
over time the balance of beliefs in the North may well result in a vote to leave the UK but it also requires a vote of the “south” ie Ireland to admit the North if it decides.
one unlikley outcome could be a vote and nobody wants NI.
我不确定我们是否这样想。然而，现任政府在议会得到了北爱尔兰独立党的支持。英国其余的大部分地区并不完全赞同北爱尔兰的政治，但相信北爱尔兰人民的民主意志会来决定。随着时间的推移，北方信仰的平衡很可能会导致投票脱离英国，但这也需要“南方”(即爱尔兰)的投票，如果它决定承认北方的话。一个不太可能的结果可能是投票了，但没有人想要北爱尔兰。
Northern ireland was created to avoid further civil wars in Ireland. It still exists as part of the UK because that’s what its people want.
北爱尔兰的建立是为了避免爱尔兰发生进一步的内战。它仍然作为英国的一部分存在，因为这是它的人民想要的。
These days Britain or over 90% of real British people have no real interests in Nth. Irl. due to the UK’s modern defence capabilities etc. Its now AD. 2022 costing the British Government in direct cask subsidies £4500, for every man, women and child living in the 6 Counties also called incorrectly Nth. Ire.
The 6 county Nth. Ire. statelet economically only contributes at most 2% in real value terms to the British exchequer because over 80 + % of these employed are in employed the public sector. In imperial times these expenses could be afforded, but in these economically constrained days it is a problem that does not seem to have a clear economic answer.
如今，由于英国的现代国防能力，超过90%的英国人对北爱尔兰没有真正的兴趣。现在的公元2022年，英国政府为居住在6个县的每个男人、女人和儿童提供了4500英镑的直接补贴。北爱6县，按实际价值计算，这个小国对英国财政部的经济贡献最多只有2%，因为其超过80%以上的雇员在公共部门工作。在帝国时代，这些费用是可以负担得起的，但在如今经济拮据的日子里，这似乎是一个没有明确答案的经济问题。
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To my knowledge it doesn't. It has already committed itself to respecting whatever decision is arrived at democratically by the people of the region and will facilitate a referendum if there is sufficient evidence of one possibly succeeding.
据我所知没有。它已经承诺尊重该区域人民以民主方式作出的任何决定，并将在有充分证据表明全民投票可能成功的情况下促进全民投票。
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You’ve got it backwards. It’s not the UK that wants Northern Ireland (though we’re glad to have them), it’s Northern Ireland who wants to remain part of the UK.
你搞反了。不是英国想要北爱尔兰(尽管我们很高兴拥有他们)，是北爱尔兰想要留在英国。
The reality is that Britain would ditch Northern Ireland in the morning if it wasn't for the unxist.
On average, it costs between £4500/5000 daily to support each person on Northern Ireland through substitudies.
The only “real" value at the moment is that it gives a land border to another EU state after Brexit (but that is controversial)
事实是，如果没有统一主义者，英国一大早就会抛弃北爱尔兰。平均来说，英国每天要在北爱尔兰每个人身上花4500~5000英镑，通过不同的取代物。北爱目前唯一的“真正”价值是，在英国退欧后，它给了另一个欧盟国家一条陆地边界(但这是有争议的)。
The UK doesn’t really want Northern Ireland. In fact, the UK actually made northern Ireland independent as part of the Irish Free State back in 1922, but Northern Ireland opted to rejoin the UK one day later.
英国并不是真的想要北爱尔兰。事实上，早在1922年，英国就让北爱尔兰独立，成为爱尔兰自由邦的一部分，但北爱尔兰在一天后选择重新加入英国。
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We don’t! But we can’t find anyone mad enough to take it off our hands! Perhaps we could cede it to Jeff Bezos and then he could have his own country not to pay taxes in?
我们没有。但我们找不到一个足够疯狂的人来接手它!也许我们可以把它割让给杰夫·贝佐斯，然后他就可以有自己的国家不用交税了?
NI is to the UK what Crimea and Donbass are to Russia. Militarily dominated and occupied ethnic/ religious enclaves.
After watching its empire being decimated and now ~50% of Scots wanting to leave the “unx”, British Nationalists are desperate to hold onto anything they can …. a bit like the once mighty USSR now its the Russian Federation
北爱之于英国，就像克里米亚和顿巴斯之于俄罗斯。是一块军事和宗教飞地。眼看着帝国被摧毁，现在50%的苏格兰人想要离开“联合王国”，英国民族主义者不顾一切地想抓住一切他们能抓住的东西....有点像曾经强大的苏联，现在变成俄罗斯联邦。
The UK doesn’t want Northern Ireland.
Northern Ireland is part of the UK for historical reasons, and the people of Northern Ireland wish it to remain part of the UK. If the people of Northern Ireland ever indicate that they no longer wish to be part of the UK then Northern Ireland will cease to be part of the UK.
英国不想要北爱尔兰。
由于历史原因，北爱尔兰是英国的一部分，北爱尔兰人民希望它继续留在英国。如果北爱尔兰人民不再希望成为英国的一部分，那么北爱尔兰就将不再是英国的一部分。
It doesn’t particularly.
But so long as Northern Ireland continues to want the UK then we we will support them in that.
Why does the the republic want Northern Ireland ?
并不特别。只要北爱尔兰继续想要英国，我们就会支持他们。为什么爱尔兰想要北爱尔兰?
Not for geopolitical reasons.
Britain used to be England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. When Ireland wanted to be separate from Britain, the north preferred to remain in the family.
So it is really not that the UK has any agenda regarding Northern Ireland, it belongs because it is a family member. They will be with us for as long as they wish to be.
不是出于地缘政治原因。英国过去是由英格兰、爱尔兰、苏格兰和威尔士组成的。当爱尔兰想从英国分离出去时，北方更愿意留在这个大家庭里。所以英国并没有任何关于北爱尔兰的议题，它就是一个家庭成员。他们愿意和我们在一起多久就会多久。
Originally Answered: Why does the world allow Britain to rule Northern Ireland?
The principle of self-determination, the same one that allowed the rest of Ireland to leave the United Kingdom in 1922 to form the Irish Free State, which later became the Republic of Ireland.
The people of Northern Ireland asked that their region not be included in the Free State, and that they be allowed to remain in the UK. It had been agreed ahead of time, by both the UK and by the Irish, that if Northern Ireland asked out, that both sides would honor this request.
The UK government has made it quite clear that if Northern Ireland ever changes its mind and wants to join the Republic, they may do so. Citizens of Northern Ireland are already entitled to dual citizenship in the Republic if they wish it.
为什么世界允许英国统治北爱尔兰?
自决原则，同样的原则允许爱尔兰的其余部分在1922年离开英国成立爱尔兰自由国家，后来成为爱尔兰共和国。北爱尔兰人民要求他们的地区不被包括在自由州，并允许他们留在英国。英国和爱尔兰事先已经同意，如果北爱尔兰提出邀请，双方都将尊重这一要求。英国政府已经明确表示，如果北爱尔兰改变主意，想要加入爱尔兰，他们可能会这么做。如果北爱尔兰公民愿意，他们可以享有爱尔兰共和国的双重公民身份。
Northern Ireland chooses to be part of the UK. If someone in Northern Ireland doesn’t like it, they can simple walk or drive to Southern Ireland where they are not part of the UK. It’s still jolly nice there…..
首先，这他妈跟世上其他人有啥关系。其次，北爱尔兰选择成为英国的一部分。如果北爱尔兰有人不喜欢，他们可以步行或开车去不属于英国的南爱尔兰。那里还是挺不错的……
Thank you so much for saying “it's got fuck all to do with the rest of the world.” I agree with you. As an American, I'm sick of foreigners getting involved in our national politics. That will be my response “it's got fuck all to do with you.”
非常感谢你说"这他妈的和世界其他地方有啥关系"。我同意你。作为一个美国人，我讨厌外国人参与我们国家的政治。我的回答是"这他妈跟你有什么关系"。
conversely, why does the world allow the USA to rule Hawaii or Puerto Rico, but I think thats a matter for American citizens to decide, as NI is a matter for British citizens
相反，为什么世界允许美国统治夏威夷或波多黎各，但我认为这是美国公民的事，就像北爱是英国公民的事。
Yes indeed. The simple answer is that the majority of the people in Northern Ireland want to be part of the UK. End of. The same reason the Falklands and Gibraltar are still British, and the Republic of Ireland isn’t. That’s what the people who live there want.
确实。答案很简单，北爱尔兰的大多数人希望成为英国的一部分。回答结束。同样的原因，福克兰群岛和直布罗陀仍然是英国的，而爱尔兰共和国则不是。那是住在那里的人想要的。
Firstly, Northern Ireland is not ruled by Britain. NI is a member of the UK - in full the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Northern Irish people who want to remain part of this unx still outnumber those who want a united Ireland, theefore NI remains in the UK. We are a democracy, so Republicans are free to voice their opposition to the unx, but it would seem that a united Ireland is not something that will soon appear.
首先，北爱尔兰不受大不列颠的统治。北爱是联合王国的成员，即大不列颠及北爱尔兰联合王国。想要留在这个联盟的北爱尔兰人仍然多于想要一个统一的爱尔兰的人，所以北爱尔兰留在了英国。我们是一个民主国家，所以共和党人可以自由地表达他们对联合的反对，但一个统一的爱尔兰似乎不会很快出现。
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The UK (including NI) is a democracy. Should the majority of people in NI choose to leave the UK and join the Republic or become independent, they may. Both the London and Dublin governments accept this as do Irish nationalists who sit in the (currently suspended) Belfast assembly/parliament.
英国(包括北爱)是一个民主国家。如果北爱尔兰的大多数人选择离开英国加入爱尔兰共和国或独立，都可以。伦敦和都柏林政府都接受这一点，在贝尔法斯特议会(目前暂停)的爱尔兰民族主义者也接受这一点。
Last referendum was overwhelming vote to remain British. The questioner has a complete ignorance about this, probably American many of whom seem to think the good citizens of NI live under “occupation” it's ridiculous
上次公投压倒性地支持留在英国。提问者对此完全无知，可能是美国人吧，他们中的许多人似乎认为北爱的好公民生活在“占领”下，这是荒谬的。
Actually, if enough people don't want Northern Irelnd to be part of the UK, they could probably have a referendum and vote to join the rest of Ireland.
事实上，如果有足够多的人不希望北爱尔兰成为英国的一部分，他们可能会举行全民公投，投票加入爱尔兰的其余部分。
With a bit of research, you will find that it is a tricky subject and WAY more complex than you think.
You will also find that there is still a majority of northern Irish people, (who are just called Irish btw), that support a continued unx with the rest of the UK.
Now if you don't class Protestant Irish from northern Ireland as Irish or worthy of having a say, then that is your problem
通过一些研究，你会发现这是一个棘手的问题，比你想象的要复杂得多。你还会发现，仍然有大多数北爱尔兰人(顺便说一下，他们被称为爱尔兰人)支持与英国其他地区继续联合。如果你不把北爱尔兰的新教爱尔兰人归为爱尔兰人或者不认为他们有发言权，那就是你的问题了。
Northern Ireland chooses to be part of the United Kingdom, if the majority of people in NI voted to leave the UK then we would, so Britain doesn't really rule us in that sense. Also although the government in England passes laws that affect NI and we vote in the British elections we do also have our own government in NI.
Its not quite as simple as ‘Britain rules Northern Ireland’.
北爱尔兰选择成为英国的一部分，如果北爱尔兰的大多数人投票离开英国，那么我们也会离开，所以英国在这方面并没有真正统治我们。虽然英格兰的政府通过了影响北爱尔兰的法律，我们在英国选举中投票，但我们在北爱尔兰也有自己的政府。这并不是“英国统治北爱尔兰”的简单问题。
The UK ruled the whole of Ireland. Ireland was leaving the UK as a whole but the people of Northern Ireland forced the government to change their original plan. So if there is a faulty party the Northern Irish who are at 'fault' not the UK government as implyed by the question.
英国统治过整个爱尔兰。爱尔兰作为一个整体离开英国，但北爱尔兰人民迫使政府改变他们最初的计划。所以，如果有一个错误的政党的话，那“错”在北爱尔兰，而不是问题暗示的英国政府。
In addition to the points mentioned it about why Northern Ireland is still part of the UK, it should be added that citizens of the Irish republic are entitled to many civil and economic benefits in the UK that even other EU citizens do not get. In addition an Irish passport will get you further than a British one.
除了提到为什么北爱尔兰仍然是英国的一部分之外，应该补充的是，爱尔兰共和国公民在英国享有许多连其他欧盟公民都得不到的公民权利和经济利益。此外，爱尔兰护照比英国护照更好用。