为什么德国和日本在第二次世界大战结束时不向苏联投降而向美国投降?如果他们向苏联投降会发生什么?
Why did Germany and Japan surrender to the U.S. instead of to the Soviet unx at the conclusion of World War II? What would have happened if they surrendered to the USSR?
译文简介
网友：你能不能别再做一个自以为是的美国佬了，去读一本关于二战的书或者上YouTube看一部纪录片，而不是问一个愚蠢的问题，这些问题仅仅是关于你的国家自以为是的傲慢，这已经深深印在你的脑海里了。哦，顺便说一下，你们美国佬也没有赢得战争，那是集体努力的结果，你们这些混蛋直到战争到一半快结束的时候才加入战争。
正文翻译
Why did Germany and Japan surrender to the U.S. instead of to the Soviet unx at the conclusion of World War II? What would have happened if they surrendered to the USSR?
为什么德国和日本在第二次世界大战结束时不向苏联投降而向美国投降?如果他们向苏联投降会发生什么?
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Matt Finkel
How about you stop being a self absorbed Yank philistine and go read a book or a documentary on YouTube about WW2 rather than asking a stupid question formulated solely on your nation’s self important arrogance which is etched deep in you brain. Oh and btw you Yanks didn't win the war either, it was a group effort and you jerks didn't join in until it was nearly half way over.
你能不能别再做一个自以为是的美国佬了，去读一本关于二战的书或者上YouTube看一部纪录片，而不是问一个愚蠢的问题，这些问题仅仅是关于你的国家自以为是的傲慢，这已经深深印在你的脑海里了。哦，顺便说一下，你们美国佬也没有赢得战争，那是集体努力的结果，你们这些混蛋直到战争到一半快结束的时候才加入战争。
, Masters in American History from Northwestern University
Ralston Heath
, lives in The United States of America (1958-present)
Neither Germany or Japan surrendered to the “U.S.” in 1945. They surrendered to the Alliance of United Nations, Germany in May, Japan in August. Germany made repeated attempts to surrender to the Western Allies but all such offers were refused. The United States and Great Britain were determined to keep their agreements with the Soviets, dating back to 1942, on not offering Germany any separate peace agreement.
The German military expected, with considerable justification, that they would be more likely to survive captivity if they surrendered to the British or Americans and would be treated more humanely. The Russian-German war had been a war of unspeakable cruelty and brutality and the Germans assumed that the Russians would be cruel and brutal in their treatment of German prisoners. They were correct. 2.8 million Germans were taken by the Soviet unx and used as slave laborers for five years or more. Three hundred thousand died in captivity.
The Japanese considered the Russians to be barbarians and also assumed that the Western Allies would give them better treatment as victors and occupiers. This was also a correct assessment. The Russians took a half million Japanese prisoners in Manchuria in 1945 and used them as slave laborers. Some did not return to Japan until 1952. Sixty thousand did not return at all.
德国和日本都没有向“美国”投降。德国和日本分别于5月和8月向盟军投降。德国多次试图向西方盟国投降，但所有这些提议都被拒绝了。美国和英国决定与苏联保持协议,此协议追溯到1942年,不向德国提供任何独立的和平。
德国军方有充分的理由认为，如果他们向英国人或美国人投降，就更有可能在囚禁中幸存下来，而且会得到更人道的对待。俄德战争是一场难以形容的残酷战争，德国人认为俄国人在对待德国战俘时也会残酷野蛮。他们是对的。280万名德国人被苏联掳走，并被当作5年以上的奴隶劳工。30万人死于囚禁。日本人认为俄罗斯人是野蛮人，也认为西方盟国作为胜利者和占领者会给他们更好的对待，这也是一个正确的评估。1945年，俄国人在满洲收容了50万名日本囚犯，并将他们用作奴隶劳工。有些人直到1952年才回到日本。6万人根本没有回来。
Actually, the number of German pows who died in the Soviet unx is a lot higher than 300,000. That number comes from Soviet sources, which have often been unreliable. According to the German Red Cross, 1.4 million German pows are “officially” listed as missing. At list 85,000 of the 150,000 German pows taken at Bagration were shot on the way to gulags. Moreover, historian William Nimro contends that over 300,000 Japanese pows died at the hands of the Soviets.
事实上，德国战俘在苏联的死亡人数远远超过30万。这个数字是苏联的消息来源，这些消息往往不可靠。据德国红十字会称，140万德国战俘“正式”被列为失踪。在巴格拉季昂俘虏的15万名德国战俘中，有8.5万人在前往古拉格集中营的途中被枪杀。此外，历史学家威廉·尼姆罗认为，超过30万名日本战俘死于苏联之手。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
On May 7, 1945, the German High Command, in the person of General Alfred Jodl, signs the unconditional surrender of all German forces, East and West, at Reims, in northeastern France.
At first, General Jodl hoped to limit the terms of German surrender to only those forces still fighting the Western Allies. But General Dwight Eisenhower demanded complete surrender of all German forces, those fighting in the East as well as in the West. If this demand was not met, Eisenhower was prepared to seal off the Western front, preventing Germans from fleeing to the West in order to surrender, thereby leaving them in the hands of the enveloping Soviet forces. Jodl radioed Grand Admiral Karl Donitz, Hitler’s successor, with the terms. Donitz ordered him to sign.
1945年5月7日，德国最高司令部以阿尔弗雷德·约德尔将军的名义，在法国东北部的兰斯签署了东德和西德所有军队无条件投降的协议。起初，约德尔将军希望将德国的投降条件限制在仍在与西方同盟国作战的部队。但是德怀特·艾森豪威尔将军要求所有在东德和西德作战的德国军队完全投降。如果这一要求得不到满足，艾森豪威尔准备封锁西线，防止德国人为了投降而逃往西线，从而将他们置于苏联军队的包围之下。约德尔通过无线电向希特勒的继任者卡尔·多尼茨上将提出了这些条件。多尼茨命令他签字。
Why would Japan surrender to the Soviets? It was America that crushed the Japanese Empire. The Soviets only fought the japs for an extremely short period, and contributed nothing to the defeat of Japan. It was all the US. People will complain and say other countries helped America fight Japan. That’s true, but only in very small numbers and again, they had no impact on the outcome of the war whatsoever.
为什么日本要向苏联投降?是美国击溃了日本帝国。苏联只和日本打了很短的一段时间，对打败日本毫无贡献。完全是美国。人们会抱怨说其他国家帮助美国对抗日本，没错，但很少，他们对战争的结果没有任何影响。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
The main opponents in Europe were Germany and Britain. Germany surrendered to it's major opponents because terms were more tolerant. The USSR would have seized the ground they conquered and subjected the people to the worst they had known.
Japan declared war upon USA and America dropped the Bomb upon that country. The principal country taking its surrender would only be America with all other countries after them.
欧洲的主要对手是德国和英国。德国向它的主要对手投降，因为条件更加宽容。苏联会占领他们征服的土地，让人民遭受他们所知道的最坏的情况。日本向美国宣战，美国向日本投下了原子弹。接受投降的主要国家只有美国，其他国家紧随其后。
Japan surrendered to the US because the Russians were poised to invade. If the Russians had invaded they would have ended the the imperial dynasty
日本向美国投降，因为俄罗斯准备入侵。如果俄国人入侵，他们就会结束帝国王朝。
Peter Pehrson
The US had little involvement in WW2, although they like to think the opposite.
美国几乎没有参与二战，尽管他们倾向于相反的想法。
Henry Hrebien
, Years of Standing Still While the Film Played (1956-present)
Oh but they did, they did, they did.
Actually there were two surrenders of Germany. The first occurred on the 7th of May, 1945, before delegations of both the Americans and the British in a red brick schoolhouse in Rheims, France. The instrument of surrender was signed by Alfred Jodl and other representatives of the German armed forces at 02:41 in the morning, Central European Time, and was to take effect by 11:00 pm on the 8th of May 1945.
A second surrender occurred in the Karlshorst district of Berlin on the evening of 8th of May 1945 before the Soviet delegation. This time, the text of the surrender was the accepted definitive one and was signed by Field Marshall Wilhelm Keitel and other signatories representing the German armed forces.
So, it was not just a surrender to the U.S. alone, it was two surrenders and to the principal Allies, the Big Three. A widening gulf that was morphing into what would become the Cold War was already manifesting itself between the Soviets and the Western Allies, which is why there were two surrenders.
Joe Stalin took offence to the surrender being accomplished in the West without a Soviet presence there. Well, he had a point. The Soviet unx had grievously suffered an invasion and a devastating war conducted on its territory both against the civilian population and the Red Army. Stalin felt that a proper surrender must occur between the Fascist beasts and the Red Army and in the Reich capital of Berlin, the locale of all the Hitlerite plans of conquest. So, that’s why the Karlshorst surrender happened.
有的，他们有。
实际上德国有两次投降。第一次是在1945年5月7日，美国和英国的代表团在法国兰斯的一所红砖校舍前。这份投降书由阿尔弗雷德·约德尔和其他德国武装部队代表于中欧时间凌晨02:41签署，并于1945年5月8日晚上11点生效。
1945年5月8日晚，第二次投降发生在柏林卡尔肖斯特区的苏联代表团面前。这一次，投降文本是公认的最终文本，并由陆军元帅威廉·凯特尔和其他代表德国武装部队的签署人签署。
所以，这不仅仅是向美国投降，而是两次向主要盟国，三巨头投降。苏联和西方盟国之间的鸿沟越来越大，逐渐演变成冷战，这就是为什么发生了两起投降事件。
斯大林对西方在没有苏联存在的情况下完成投降感到愤怒。好吧，他说的有道理，苏联在其领土上遭受了严重的侵略和一场针对平民和红军的毁灭性战争。斯大林认为，法西斯兽类和红军之间必须进行适当的投降仪式，在帝国首都柏林和希特勒所有征服计划的所在地。这就是卡尔肖斯特投降的原因。
The invasion and the rapid advances of the Red Army prompted the Japanese Emperor Hirohito to issue the Gyokuon-hōsō, a prerecorded message for radio broadcast informing the Japanese that the Imperial Government of Japan had accepted the terms of unconditional surrender as outlined in the Potsdam Declaration of July 26th, of 1945. The Soviet unx was a signatory to that Declaration. There had been several days delay due to behind the scenes negotiations and a failed coup attempt to prevent the Emperor’s radio broadcast The Emperor’s message was finally broadcast on the 15th of August, 1945.
For the Japanese hearing it, it was confusing. The idea of surrender was unthinkable in their minds and the Emperor spoke in a formal and in an archaic language style, did not mention the word surrender, and the recording was poor and crackly, people were not exactly sure what he said or what the Emperor’s broadcast meant.
Because of this confusion, the Japanese cessation of hostilities was not immediate. There was a significant lack of coordinated communication in passing on the orders for a ceasefire between the Imperial Japanese Army HQ and officers of the Kwantung army in the field. Officers either did not understand it or simply ignored it, and so pockets of hostilities still went on. Despite the isolated resistance in some parts, the Soviets made huge gains in territorial conquest. They made short shrift of Mongolia and agreed to occupy North Korea while allowing the Americans to occupy the south as their zone with the demarcation occurring at the 38th parallel.
The long held view is that the atomic bombings by the Americans of Hiroshima on the 6th of August, 1945 and of Nagasaki on the 9th of August, 1945, are the events that led to the Japanese surrender.
1945年8月8 /9日，苏联对日宣战，苏联入侵满洲，袭击了以中国前皇帝溥仪和朝鲜为首的日本伪满洲国，让日本人大吃一惊。日本关东军的失败是迅速和毁灭性的。红军设法抓住了溥仪并把他俘虏了。
红军的进攻飞速，日本天皇裕仁发布了预先录制的广播信息，通知日本帝国政府接受1945年7月26日《波茨坦公告》中提出的无条件投降条件。苏联是该宣言的签署国。由于幕后谈判和企图阻止天皇广播的未遂政变，推迟了几天。天皇的信息终于在1945年8月15日播出。日本人听到后，感到困惑。投降的想法在他们的脑海中是不可想象的，天皇用正式的古语说话，并没有提到投降这个词，录音又劣质，人们不太确定他说了什么或者天皇的广播是什么意思。
由于这种混乱，日本并没有立即停止敌对行动。日本帝国陆军司令部和现场关东军军官在传递停火命令时明显缺乏协调沟通。军官们要么不理解，要么干脆无视，因此零星的敌对行动仍在继续。尽管在某些地区进行了孤立的抵抗，苏联在领土征服方面取得了巨大的收获。
长期以来，人们一直认为，1945年8月6日美国对广岛和8月9日对长崎的原子弹轰炸是导致日本投降的事件。
He, and American Japanese historian, Tsuyoshi Hasegawa in his research, both men assert that Japan was already seeing its situation as hopeless before the bombings and was tottering on the brink of surrendering anyway.
But it was the Soviet invasion that made it abundantly clear that Imperial Japan had no more options left. The strategy of the Imperial Japanese Army was to concentrate their forces in central Japan to fend off an anticipated American invasion of the homeland from the south.
But now, with the Red Army engaging their forces in Manchukuo and Manchuria, there were no more spare troops to deploy for this defense strategy nor to meet the threat from the Soviets in the north. And with the Soviets now as a belligerent in conflict with them, that fact shot down what hopes there had been for a negotiated surrender to the Americans by using the Soviets as intermediaries.
The occupation of Japan as led by the Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers (SCAP), General Douglas MacArthur, began on August 28th, 1945.
The formal surrender did not happen until the 2nd of September, 1945 when dignitaries from the Emperor signed the instrument of surrender to the Americans aboard the USS Missouri.
Despite the surrender call, there was still some renegade Japanese forces in far flung parts of Southeast Asia that refused to surrender.
The Treaty of San Francisco signed on April 28th, 1952, formally reestablished peaceful relations between Japan and the Allied Powers on behalf of the United Nations.
The state of war between Japan and the Soviet unx did not formally end until the signing of the Soviet-Japanese Joint Declaration of 1956, signed by both countries on October 19th, 1956, reestablishing diplomatic relations.
So, Japan ended up surrendering twice as well, to both the Americans and the Soviets.
但近年来，这种说法遭到了美国军事历史学家理查德的质疑。他认为这不是导致日本投降的全部图景。他和美籍日本历史学家长谷川刚在研究中都断言，日本在轰炸之前就已经认为自己的处境是毫无希望了，无论如何都是在投降的边缘蹒跚而行。
但苏联的入侵充分表明日本帝国已经没有其他选择了。日本帝国军队的战略是把他们的部队集中在日本中部，以抵御预期中的美国从南部入侵本土。
但现在，随着与红军在满洲交战，没有多余的军队来部署这种防御战略，也没有多余的军队来应对来自北方苏联的威胁。由于苏联现在与他们交战，这一事实又粉碎了通过苏联作为中间人向美国谈判投降的希望。
盟军最高指挥官道格拉斯·麦克阿瑟将军于1945年8月28日开始占领日本。
直到1945年9月2日，天皇的达官显要在密苏里号军舰上签署了向美国人投降的文书，正式的投降才发生。
尽管日本要求投降，但在东南亚偏远地区仍有一些日本叛变军队拒绝投降。
1952年4月28日签署的旧金山条约，代表联合国正式恢复了日本与同盟国的和平关系。
日本和苏联之间的战争状态直到1956年10月19日签署了苏日联合声明才正式结束，并恢复了外交关系。
所以，日本最终也向美国和苏联有过两次投降。
Allen Edwards
, Interested in WW2
The Germans surrendered to all three of the allied powers, The agreement between the allied powers was not to accept a separate peace deal with Nazi Germany. The British and the Americans refused to accept Germany’s first offer of surrender because it didn’t include the Soviet unx.
德国向所有三个同盟国投降，同盟国之间的协议是不接受与纳粹德国单独的和平协议。英国和美国拒绝接受德国的第一次投降提议，因为当时没有包括苏联。
, Algorithmician, history buff, non-practicing hedonist.
Germany surrendered to USA, UK, France, and USSR. After signing on May 8, it was discovered the Soviet representative did not have proper authorization, and the document signed was found to have some errors. So Germany surrendered again to the same countries, with a new Soviet representative. This is why most countries remember VE day on May 8, but Post-Soviet countries remember May 9.
Japan surrendered to the United States, the Republic of China, the United Kingdom, the unx of Soviet Socialist Republics, the Commonwealth of Australia, the Dominion of Canada, the Provisional Government of the French Republic, the Kingdom of the Netherlands, and the Dominion of New Zealand.
德国向美国、英国、法国和苏联都投降过。在5月8日签署后，发现苏联代表没有适当的授权，签署的文件还被发现有一些错误。因此，德国再次向这些国家投降，并派出了新的苏联代表。这就是为什么大多数国家都是在5月8日纪念胜利日，而前苏联国家则是在5月9日。
日本先后向美国、中华民国、英国、苏维埃社会主义共和国联盟、澳大利亚联邦、加拿大自治领、法兰西共和国临时政府、荷兰王国和新西兰自治领投降。
Andrew Wiltshire
, History buff and mystery buff
The Japanese surrender on USS Missouri was signed by military representatives of ALL allied countries fighting in the Pacific theatre of war, not just the USA and Japan.
日本在密苏里号上的投降是由在太平洋战场上作战的所有盟国的军事代表签署的，而不仅仅是美国和日本。
Smitaj
, cyclist, farmer, teacher, a lifetime of study, 50 yr married
Was the US actually involved in the war against Germany? I thought that it was Britain that declared war on Nazi aggression in Europe and the US named Hitler as man of the year.
Then claimed that the war was simply a “European conflict” while avoiding being involved.
But to get to the war itself, ask yourself how many Russians died compared to the numbers of personnel from Britain or France or the US. You would understand the hatred that the Russians had for Germany and their desire to seek vengeance.
Just as the USA did in using atomic bombs on two cities in Japan.
No German would want to fall into the hands of people who had such a desire for vengeance.
美国真的参与了对德战争吗?我以为是英国对欧洲的纳粹侵略宣战，而美国把希特勒评为年度人物。然后声称这场战争只是一场“欧洲的冲突”，同时又避免卷入其中。但说到战争本身，问问你自己，与英国、法国或美国的人员数量相比，有多少俄罗斯人死亡。你会理解俄国人对德国的仇恨以及他们寻求报复的欲望。就像美国用原子弹轰炸日本的两座城市一样。没有哪个德国人会想落入怀有如此复仇欲望的人手中。
Timothy Paulino
The Germans kinda surrendered to the Allies in Berlin as a whole. The main Allied Nations had representatives there, but the surrender was to Soviet General Zhukov. The Soviets were the ones who controlled Berlin and also fought the bulk of the Nazi military.
The same way the Americans accepted the surrender of the Japanese in the Pacific.
There was a preference to surrender to the Western Allies due to stories of cruelty, neglect, abuse in Soviet POW camps. So there are stories of Wehrmacht units evading encirclement by the Soviets to surrender to the Americans.
Also there is speculation that one of the reasons Japan surrendered was because the Soviets were advancing into Manchuria. The writing was already on the wall for the Japanese and allowing the Americans to control post war Japan was more ideal than a split Soviet-American situation. Similar to what Germany and the Korean Peninsula had post war.
德国人在柏林向盟军投降了。主要的盟国在那里有代表，但投降的对象是苏联的朱可夫将军。苏联人控制了柏林，并与纳粹军队进行了战斗。就像美国人在太平洋接受了日本人的投降一样。
由于苏联战俘营的残酷和虐待的故事，他们倾向于向西方盟国投降。因此，有传闻称，德国国防军部队避开了苏联的包围，向美国投降。还有人猜测，日本投降的原因之一是苏联正在向满洲推进。对日本人来说，这已经是不祥之兆，允许美国人在战后控制日本，比被美苏分裂的局面更理想，就类似于德国和朝鲜半岛战后的情况。
Richard Morris
, former Database Analyst at Microsoft (2000-2017)
Japan surrendered to the USA because Japan was at war with the USA and attacked Hawaii. The USA dropped two atomic bombs in Japan and this lead to the surrender.
as for Germany , the surrender we for the allied forces. The allies were a combined force from several nations. Both the USA and the Russians were fighting the Germans as allies.
日本向美国投降，因为日本与美国交战，并袭击了夏威夷。美国在日本投了两颗原子弹，导致日本投降。至于德国，是向盟军投降。同盟国是几个国家的联合部队。美国和苏联都是与德国战斗的盟国。
Allan Kay
, former & Current Ardent Geopolitical Observer
There were two English speaking countries compared to one Russian speaking. Therefore majority wins.
有两个说英语的国家，而只有一个说俄语的国家。因此多数获胜。
Terry Douglas
When the German high command surrendered to the Americans or British they were transported to the Soviet Command post and they surrendered again.
当德国最高指挥部向美国或英国投降时，他们被转移到苏联指挥部，他们再次投降。
Richard Davis
, Design Engineer
As far as Germany goes, they surrendered overall to the allied forces which included the USSR.
If you are talking the fall of Berlin, they preferred surrendering as individuals to the US side as their chances of starting alive were far better. Germany has just finished looting, raping, and murdering Russian civilians in the invasion of the USSR. In return, the Russian soldiers where doing the same to the Germans as they rushed towards Berlin.
As far as Japan goes, again the surrendered to the allied forces in Sept of 1945. The USSR did not join them until Aug of 1945 so they were only in the fight for a month.
就德国而言，他们向包括苏联在内的盟军投降。如果你指的是柏林沦陷，那他们宁愿以个人身份向美国投降，因为他们活着的机会要大得多。德国刚刚结束了入侵苏联，并对俄罗斯平民进行掠夺、强奸和谋杀。作为回报，俄国士兵冲向柏林也对德国人做了同样的事。
就日本而言，1945年9月再次向盟军投降。苏联直到1945年8月才加入，所以他们只打了一个月的仗。