100%的识字率是一件好事吗(下)
Is a 100% literacy rate a good thing?
译文简介
网友：识字率是对其整体社会经济地位影响最大的一个因素。教育是提升整个社会的第一步。我们可以从所有国家的历史记录中看出，这些国家在教育上的支出占其GDP的比例如果最高，这些国家的人享有世界上最好的生活水平......
正文翻译
Is a 100% literacy rate a good thing?
100%的识字率是一件好事吗?
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Dharamveer Dheer，教育家（2004年至今）
We can see from track record of all countries which spend the highest percentage of their GDP on education. These countries enjoy the best standard of living across the world.
Education not only gives skills to earn money, it also gives rational, pragmatic thinking too which reduces the social evils arising out of orthodox thought processes.
So it can be safely derived that maximum literacy is not only good but best thing to happen to a nation or society.
识字率是对其整体社会经济地位影响最大的一个因素。教育是提升整个社会的第一步。
我们可以从所有国家的历史记录中看出，这些国家在教育上的支出占其GDP的比例如果最高，这些国家的人享有世界上最好的生活水平。
教育不仅提供赚钱的技能，还提供理性、务实的思维，从而减少传统思维过程中产生的社会弊端。
因此，我们可以放心地得出结论：最大限度地提高识字率不仅是一件好事，而且是在一个国家或社会上发生的最好事情。
Fajrian Yunus，就读于南洋理工大学
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
A few years ago, I went for a holiday to Taiwan, alone. The problem is that ... I can't speak nor read nor listen Chinese. But this stupid illiterate man went there nevertheless.
I wanted to go to a place whose name is translated as "Sun Moon Lake" in English. So I went to the bus terminal. There, I saw a bus, with 3 Chinese characters written prominently on the side window. Usually, when such thing exists, it denotes the bus route or its destination. So I grabbed my Chinese pocket dictionary, and search for the Chinese characters of "Sun", "Moon", and "Lake" while performing pattern matching between the characters I saw on the bus side window and the characters I saw on my pocket dictionary. Oh yeah, there is a slanted stroke on this corner. Huh, where is this stroke on that character? Eh, should there be 2 strokes or 3 strokes?
And yes, I took the bus and the bus went to the place I wanted to go.
I would imagine my life would be easier if I went to France or Germany which use Latin characters which I am familiar with.
I don't imagine a blue collar worker or anyone else would be benefited by having to go through the pattern matching exercise whenever he or she wants to take a bus.
让我告诉你当文盲的感觉。
几年前，我独自去台湾度假。问题是我不会说，也不会读，更不会听中文。但是我这个愚蠢的文盲还是去了那里。
我想去一个翻译过来英文名为“Sun Moon Lake”的地方。所以我去了公共汽车站。在那里，我看到一辆公共汽车，侧窗上醒目地写着3个汉字。通常，当有这样的东西存在时，它表示巴士路线或目的地。于是我抓起我的中文袖珍字典，搜索“日”、“月”、“潭”三个汉字，并将我在公交车侧窗上看到的汉字与袖珍字典上看到的汉字进行匹配。哦，是的，在这个角落有一个倾斜的笔划。这个字的笔画在哪里?呃，应该划两下还是三下?
是的，我坐公共汽车去了我想去的地方。
我想如果我去法国或德国，那里使用我熟悉的拉丁字符，我的生活会更轻松。
我不认为一个蓝领工人或其他任何人在他或她想乘公共汽车时必须进行匹配文字而且会从中受益。
Yes, it is a good thing.
You might be confusing literacy, or rather the criteria based on which a person can be called literate, with one having education or degree, but many years before the people doing literacy census in India told me that if one knows how to read and write his name, he is considered literate.
literacy goes a long way in boosting basic health, social and economic indicators. A strong correlation exists in high literacy with having gender equality, low infanticide, equal society, general health, and so on. A poor, but literate, women has a much higher chance to escape abusive marriage, be independent, take care of her children, and escape poverty.
是的，这是件好事。
你可能会把识字率，或者更确切地说，被识字的标准与受过教育或有学位混淆起来。但很多年前，在印度进行扫盲普查的人告诉我，如果一个人知道如何读写他的名字，他就被认为是识字的人。
识字在提高基本健康、社会和经济指标方面有很大的作用。高识字率与性别平等、低杀婴率、社会平等、一般健康状况等密切相关。一个贫穷但受过教育的妇女有更高的机会逃脱虐待的婚姻，独立，照顾她的孩子，并摆脱贫困。
Of course it would be a good thing if everyone on earth could read and write.
Your argument that literacy would make people refuse to do lower level jobs makes no sense to me.
I assume you consider being a trash collector a laborious job. In my town all the people in that job are required to be able to read and write. I know several of them, and about half have had some college or trade education beyond high school. They do not bemoan their lowly job. On the contrary, they are glad to have good steady work with benefits to support themselves and their families.
I consider reading and writing a human right. That is why I am so incensed by cultures who purposely withhold education from women or the poor in order to keep them subjugated.
There is NO benefit in keeping anyone illiterate. Except to those who want to exploit them.
当然，如果地球上的每个人都能读写，那将是一件好事。
你说识字会让人们拒绝做低水平的工作，这在我看来毫无道理
我猜你认为收垃圾是一项艰苦的工作。在我的家乡，所有做那份工作的人都必须具备读写能力。我认识他们中的一些人，其中一半人在高中之后还接受过大学或商业教育。他们并不为自己卑微的工作而哀叹。相反，他们很高兴有一份稳定的工作，有福利来养活自己和家人
我认为阅读和写作是一项人权。这就是为什么我对那些故意不让妇女或穷人接受教育以使她们屈服的文化感到愤怒。
让任何一个人保持文盲是没有好处的。除了那些想利用他们的人。
I have a Master's degree and l speak and write 4 languages fluently.
A year ago l launched my own high end furniture making business with my life partner. We spend our days designing the work, cutting materials, joining them, sanding, painting, installing our work.
I love it. There is something incredibly satisfying about building something with your own hands that could never be replaced by sitting behind a computer all day.
At night l enjoy curling up with a good book.
I think it's too simplistic to divide people in white/blue collar job categories. We are all capable of many things if we set our minds to it.
Literacy is vital to understanding the world today and should be accessible to all.
我有硕士学位，能流利地说和写4种语言。
一年前，我和我的生活伴侣开始了自己的高端家具制造业务。我们每天都在设计作品、切割材料、连接它们、打磨、喷漆、安装作品。
我喜欢用自己的双手建造一些东西，有一种令人难以置信的满足感，整天坐在电脑后面是没有这种感觉的。
晚上我喜欢蜷缩着看书。
我认为将人们划分为白领/蓝领工作类别太简单了。只要我们下定决心，我们都能做很多事情。
识字率对于理解当今世界至关重要，应该让所有人都能识字。
With higher rates of literacy and education, individuals become exposed to new ideas and are able to process information in new ways, leading to greater innovation and execution efficiency. It also leads to greater dignity of labor, as the miasma of societal discrimination and economic discrimination clears up.
Also, greater literacy and education allows individuals to become more organized as collectives, and thereby better equipped to leverage favorable negotiation terms (check out this article India's More Perfect unx for one interesting perspective on the power of labor unxs and the devastating effects they can have on an industry). Literacy and education shouldn't be a privilege for affluent citizens alone - everyone should be able to access human knowledge and empower themselves, whether they work in a grocery store selling vegetables or in a construction site; access to education allows citizens to make informed decisions, and thereby build healthier societies.
随着识字率和受教育率的提高，个人会接触到新的想法，能够以新的方式处理信息，从而带来更大的创新和执行效率。随着社会歧视和经济歧视的阴霾逐渐消散，它还带来了更大的劳动尊严。
此外，更高的文化水平和教育水平使个人成为更有组织性的集体，从而更好地利用有利的谈判条件（请参阅本文《印度更完美的工会》，从一个有趣的角度了解工会的力量及其对行业的破坏性影响）。识字和教育不应该仅仅是富裕公民的特权——每个人都应该能够获得人类的知识并增强自己的能力，无论他们在杂货店卖蔬菜还是在建筑工地工作；接受教育可以让公民做出明智的决定，从而建设更健康的社会。
Andreas Blix，frxr高级产品工程师
Literacy improves communication. A person with literacy can communicate better what they know, and the employer can communicate easier what they want.
White collar jobs (such as office space jobs, managerial jobs, sales jobs) require a lot of communication. That means that people who are literate will have a higher chance on average to get the job, simply from the quality of literacy.
Assuming that a white collar job is more desirable than a laborious job, people who have more choice (literacy) will choose the desirable job. This leaves the people with less literacy with less choice. And this is why you think you see a correlation between literacy and white collar jobs.
The error in this question is the assumption that literacy defines whether you get to choose a white collar job or a laborious job. The fact of the matter is that supply and demand is in effect, and while literacy is a positive bias in getting to choose a job, removing the bias by attaining 100% literacy just puts everyone on a more level field. The same number of jobs will still be around, and people will get denied the more desirable jobs for other reasons instead.
Hypothetically, if there were more jobs than people (highly unlikely), then that would of course mean that the desirable jobs would fill up first. But in such a case, I don't think the literacy of the workers matters, because the more desirable (but understaffed) jobs would probably be willing to educate its potential workers , rather than deny them the choice. Supply and demand.
当然，100%的识字率是一件好事。这就是为什么低识字率不会有帮助：
识字有助于沟通。有文化的人可以更好地交流他们所知道的内容，雇主可以更容易与他们地交流想法。。
白领工作（如办公室工作、管理工作、销售工作）需要大量的沟通。这意味着识字的人有更高的机会找到工作，这仅仅是因为识字的质量。
假设白领工作比辛苦的工作更令人向往，（识字）的人有更多选择时会选择理想的工作。这使得识字率较低的人选择机会较少。这就是为什么你认为读写能力和白领工作之间存在关联。
这个问题的错误在于，假设读写能力决定了你可以选择白领工作还是艰苦的工作。事实上，供求关系是有效的，虽然识字率是选择工作时的一种积极偏见，但通过达到100%的识字率来消除这种偏见只会让每个人都进入一个更为平等的领域。同样数量的工作仍将存在，人们将因为其他原因而无法得到更理想的工作。
假设，如果工作岗位比人多(非常不可能)，那么这当然意味着理想的工作岗位会减少，但在这种情况下，我认为工人的文化素养并不重要，因为更理想(但人手不足)的工作可能会愿意教育其具备潜在能力的工人，而不是剥夺他们的选择机会。这一切都是供需关系。
Bad manager says: "I don't see why we teach people to work here - what if they leave after a while?"
Good manager says: "What if we don't train them and they stay forever?"
坏经理说：“我不明白在这里工作，我们为什么要教别人—如果他们过一段时间离开怎么办？”
好的管理者说：“如果我们不训练他们，他们会永远留在这里，那怎么办？”
In a developed nation, the number of labour jobs that do not require education is shockingly low. Rule out any construction job in Canada because of the safety requirements. First day on any project, I have to sit through a safety seminar and then read and complete a test. Every person on the job has to do this from general labourers to site supervisors to the designers of the building.
Landscaping? You probably need a drivers license and that takes an ability to read.
I think that you could be a trapper in the north without being able to read. There are probably 30,000 (less than 1/100 of 1% of the population) of them in the entire country (including native and Inuit hunters) and most if not all of them can read although probably do not have to on the job.
Ditch digger? The job my mom threatened me with if I did not do my homework? They are called heavy equipment operators now, they have to read to get qualified (and to read the huge cheques they get every week - wrong guess, Mom!).
100% literacy is not only a good thing, it is absolutely mandatory for our economy.
在一个发达国家，不需要教育背景的劳动岗位数量低得惊人。在加拿大，因为安全要求，任何建筑工作中，开启任何项目的第一天，我必须坐下来通过一个安全研讨会，然后阅读和完成一个测试。每个工作人员都必须这样做，从普通工人到现场监督，再到建筑的设计师。
景观美化类工作？你可能需要驾驶执照，这需要阅读能力。
我想你可能是北方的一个捕猎者—不识字。全国大约有30000人（不到1%人口的）（包括土著和因纽特人—猎人），他们中的大多数人（如果不是所有人的话）都能阅读，尽管他们可能不需要在工作中懂阅读。
挖沟机工作？如果我不做作业，我妈妈威胁我将从事的工作类型？他们现在被称为重型设备操作员，他们必须阅读才能获得资格（还要阅读每周收到的巨额支票—妈妈，你猜错了！）。
100%的识字率不仅是一件好事，而且对我们的经济来说是绝对必要的。
Srikanth Surapaneni，商业推动者、战略联盟、Reqrootr联合创始人（2018年至今）
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Skill rate would replace the term literacy rate. In fact, I would love to see soon that the skill rate replaces literacy rate. Many states who claim better literacy rates are also facing the problem of unemployment due to lack of skilled professionals. So, going forward skill improvement, skill upgradation will be the key.
我真的认为这在未来几年并不重要。
技能率将取代“识字率。事实上，我希望很快看到技能率取代识字率。许多声称识字率较高的州也因缺乏熟练专业人员而导致出现失业问题。因此，在技能提升方面，技能升级将是关键。
I have worked as a carpenter/cabinetmaker most of my life which makes me a blue collar worker. I can tell you that the abilities of reading writing math and geometry are very necessary for me to perform my work. I have worked with carpenters that were illiterate and sadly they could not be left alone to work by themselves. An illiterate/uneducated workforce is inefficient and expensive.
That said I tend to agree with Jimmy Wales in his opinion that this question is class driven. If you are part of the upper class wherever you live you may be wishing to preserve your status by keeping the masses ignorant .
I have to admit that this question makes me angry!
我一生的大部分时间都在做木匠、细木工，这使我成为一名蓝领工人。我可以告诉你，阅读、写作、数学和几何的能力对我完成工作是非常必要的。我曾与不识字的木匠一起工作，不幸的是，他们不能独自工作。文盲、未受教育的劳动力效率低下，成本高昂。
也就是说，我倾向于同意吉米·威尔斯的观点，即这个问题是由阶级驱动的。如果你是上层阶级的一部分，无论你住在哪里，你可能希望通过让大众保持无知来维持你的地位。
我不得不承认这个问题让我很生气！
巴斯卡·帕拉杜奥，一名农民，一名劳工，一名白领。
I have been a farmer, a labor and now a white collar job holder. I came from a village, grew up both in village and a small town and now live in a big metropolitan in USA and I think I am qualified give more first-hand answer.
Connection between literacy and labor needs to observed based on the labor in question.
Heavy engineering - Literacy is a must to perform certain operations efficiently.
My brother is high-school educated labor-contractor in energy industry. He has both literate and illiterate people in his crew. He will assign certain work to only literate person. Illiterate person might still make same amount, be more responsible and do an efficient job, but being illiterate limits him. Also just being able to read and write doesn't take you to places, for that you need personal attributes. For some critical consulting advise my brother charges $1500/day (100000 rupees!!), just because of knowledge he acquired even being a high-school educated person. The people who consult are white-collar master degree holders. Being literate opened that door, he is still a labor but more efficient than white-collar person.
Jimmy Wales和Balaji Viswanathan提到的问题本身似乎有一些偏见和理解起来有局限限。虽然Jimmy Wales已经从全球的角度回答了这个问题，但我将尝试用更现实的方式来回答。
我曾经是一名农民，一名劳工，现在是一名白领。我来自一个村庄，在一个村庄和一个小镇长大，现在住在美国的大都市，我想我有资格给出更多的第一手答案。
识字率和劳动之间的联系需要根据所讨论的劳动类型来观察。
重型机械工程—要想高效地执行某些操作，必须具备一定的读写能力
我哥哥是能源行业受过高中教育的劳务承包商。他的手下既有识字的人，也有不识字的人。他只把某些工作分配给有文化的人。不识字的人可能仍然挣同样的钱，更负责任，工作效率更高，但文盲限制了他。此外，仅仅能够读和写并不能让你达到目的，为此你需要具备个人属性。对于一些重要的咨询建议，我哥哥每天收费1500美元（100000卢比！），即使仅受过高中教育，但他学到了知识。咨询的人都是拥有硕士学位的白领。识字的给了他机会，他仍然是一名劳工，但比白领更有效率。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
So, literacy is not going to hinder any labor position, but is only going to help. It is the personal vales and attitude that decides. If one feels entitled and superior to others by being literate then he is not helpful to society at large.
Literacy requirements being diluted in India : Literacy is just about ability to read and write, nothing further. The rest of the abilities are personal. In US super market I have observed persons at checking counters not able calculate how much change to give back until the system prompts, which I didn't observed even with illiterate person in India - does it mean literacy standards are poor in US.
There is one thing though that India should avoid of blindly following others - we don't want human robots who just understand and execute instructions; we need intelligent humans.
农业工作可能不需要识字，但识字后并不意味着一个人不再是农民。包括我在内的许多人甚至在接受技术教育的同时也从事农业，我认识的我父亲那一代（1950年代）许多有文化的人一生都是农民。
所以，读写能力不会妨碍从事任何劳动岗位，只会有所帮助。这是个人价值和态度决定的。如果一个人因为识字而感到自己有资格和优于他人，那么他对整个社会没有帮助。
在印度，读写能力的要求正在被淡化：读写能力仅仅是阅读和写作的能力，而不是其他。其余的能力都是个人的。在美国的超市里，我观察到在检查柜台的人在系统提示之前无法计算要返还多少钱，而在印度的文盲中甚至都可以做到—这是否意味着美国的识字水平很低。
不过，有一件事印度应该避免盲目追随其他国家—我们不想要只会理解和执行指令的人类机器人；我们需要聪明的人。
胡安·何塞·拉迪扎巴尔，洪都拉斯公民
这不会对我产生任何影响。但当然，许多人和公司不喜欢这样，因为这意味着他们不能再欺骗人们去做或购买他们不喜欢、不需要或不想要的东西。事实上，我认为这可能会使我受益，因为我住在洪都拉斯。洪都拉斯的识字率为88.5%（比世界平均水平低一个百分点）。有时我很难实体文本与他人交流，因为许多人不知道如何阅读。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
埃里克·基鲁巴苏坦，就读于伦敦大学学院
Assuming that non-literate persons are restricted to "laborious" jobs and are consequently paid nominally or remain unpaid, you must be prepared to accept that the class will drag down the society's purchasing power. Such an economy will implode, because it artificially seeks to cut demand.
Your society would be inefficient and largely unproductive, given that a majority or a substantial minority would need to be rendered forcibly illiterate (which wastes resources), demand little of value and produce little of value.
Your economy would be a the mercy of foreign markets, because domestic demand would be more or less non-existent. Your people cannot afford what they produce; you may very well have to peddle their produce to foreigners for a pittance.
我必须说，他们试图将读写能力和教育混为一谈，并进一步将教育与白领工作联系起来。为了创造一个让自己感到厌恶的劳动得以实现的阶级，甚至考虑限制扫盲都是不道德的.
假设不识字的人被限制在“费力”的工作中，因此名义上获得报酬或仍然没有报酬，你必须准备好接受这个阶级会拖累社会的购买力。这样一个经济体将崩溃，因为它人为地寻求削减需求。
你的社会将是低效的，而且基本上是没有生产力的，因为大多数人或相当多的少数人需要被强制变成文盲（这会浪费资源），需求少，产出少
你的经济将受制于外国市场，因为国内需求或多或少将不复存在你的人民负担不起他们生产的东西;你很可能不得不向外国人兜售他们生产的产品以赚取微薄的收入
In a Democracy, yes. Literacy is very important for proper voting, and it increases productivity and quality of life, for obvious reasons. It allows more social mobility, because reading is a very important skill for getting more education.
In a Meritocratic Oligarchy, yes. It's nice to have a good pool of people to recruit into the party, and if people can't understand all the great things you're doing, they might rebel.
In an autocracy, no. It would be better to have as little educated people as possible, because educated people are more likely to rebel. Writing is a great way for rebels to communicate with each other. Better keep them stupid.
在民主国家，是的。识字对于正确的投票非常重要，它提高了生产力和生活质量，原因显而易见。它允许更多的社会流动性，因为阅读是获得更多教育的一项非常重要的技能。
在精英寡头政治中，是的，有一个人才库来入党是好事，如果人们不能理解你所做的所有伟大的事情，他们可能会造反。
在专制政体中，没有好处。最好是教育程度越低越好，因为教育程度越高的人越容易造反。写作是叛军互相交流的好方法。最好让他们保持愚蠢。
罗伯特·斯特里克兰，软件工程师
High literacy rates are a good thing as long as the people have jobs that those people's need to be stimulated.
Also, Cuba has high literacy rates. Very high. And it hasn't seemed to help them. So we know that, this one component is not the silver bullet to a great economy and to happy citizens.
People need to be respected, challenged and recognized based on their merits and intelligence.
Also it boils down to Maslow's hierarchy of needs. If I'm uneducated then I will more likely accept any job that will satisfy my basic needs with the hope that some of my wants will be met as well. But as I learn more, I begin to expect more, this is because I have an idea of the value of my new found knowledge.
This doesn't change based on literacy rates. People who are skilled in what they do will slows look for more responsibility, power and money. White collar or blue collar.
高识字率是一件好事,只要人们有工作，他们就需要被激励
此外，古巴的识字率很高、非常高。这似乎对他们没有帮助。因此，我们知道，这一部分并不是让经济腾飞和让公民幸福的良方。
人们需要根据自己的优点和才智得到尊重、挑战和认可。
它还可以归结为马斯洛的需求层次理论。如果我没有受过教育，那么我更有可能接受任何能满足我基本需求的工作，希望我的一些愿望也能得到满足。但随着我学到更多知识，我开始有更多期待，这是因为我对我新发现的知识的价值有了概念。
这不会因识字率而改变。擅长于自己工作的人会寻求更多的责任、权力和金钱—不管白领还是蓝领。