QA：罗马有过黑人皇帝吗？
Were there black emperors of Rome?
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QA历史板块讨论非洲来的罗马皇帝算不算黑人
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Were there black emperors of Rome?
QA：罗马有过黑人皇帝吗？
QA：罗马有过黑人皇帝吗？
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Benjamin Kirk, Interested in History and Geopolitics, Americanophile
Answered Mon · Upvoted by
Stephen Lub, lived in Rome, Italy (1992-2016)
In the American Definition of Black, probably not
如果你说的是美国人对黑人的定义，可能没有过。
There were really no parts of the Roman Empire that can be Considered “Black” barring a Slither of the Extreme South of Egypt near Nubia, so all Blacks have to come from Slaves, which are unlikely to become Emperors, and most Roman Emperors were from Europe especially biased to Italians, Spanish, Illyrian, Thracian and Greek, some where from the Middle East and North Africa or descended from native Groups from there, but they weren’t really Black in the American Sense Either today or back then
虽然塞普蒂米乌斯·西弗勒斯被视为典型的非洲来的罗马皇帝，但事实上，他的棕色皮肤让他更像阿拉伯人
除了努比亚附近埃及最南端的一个狭长地带外，罗马帝国没有任何地方可以被视为“黑人区”，因此所有黑人基本上都来自奴隶，奴隶不太可能成为皇帝，而大多数罗马皇帝都来自欧洲，尤其是意大利人、西班牙人、伊利里亚人、色雷斯人和希腊人，有些人来自中东和北非，或者是那里的土著的后裔，但无论是今天还是那时，他们都不是真正意义上的黑人
Answered Feb 8 · Upvoted by Valentine Belfiglio, PHD Political Science & History, Texas Woman's University (1970)
Scott Webb - the term “black” has multiple meanings to different people.
Do you mean “black” as in the way Americans use it? Namely as people having sub-saharan African heritage? In that case, then no, there were no black emperors of Rome - there were no emperors of Rome who had a sub-Saharan grand or great-grandparent.
Do you mean “black” as in the skin colour? Again, no emperor of Rome had a “black” skin tone - but many if not most of them had a brown or olive coloured skin-tone.
There were Roman Emperors of North-African heritage - Septimus Severus and his descendants. However remember that Severus was part Punic - meaning HIS ancestry was from Lebanon.
斯科特·韦伯 -“黑人”一词对不同的人种有多种含义。
你是说美国人对于“黑皮肤”一词的理解方式吗？即撒哈拉以南非洲的人？在这种情况下，没有，罗马没有黑人皇帝 - 没有罗马皇帝的祖先来自于黑非洲。
如果你指的是肤色呢？再说一次，罗马皇帝都没有“黑色”的肤色，但实际上，也有许多人有棕色或橄榄色的肤色。
有北非来的的罗马皇帝——塞普蒂默斯·西弗勒斯及其后裔。然而，请记住，西弗勒斯有布匿血统——这意味着他的祖先来自黎巴嫩。
He may have had some Berber ancestry but
it seems clear that none of his great-grandparents had such ancestry
Berbers on the Mediterranean are closer related to other Mediterranean people rather than sub-saharan africans
This is what Berbers from Algeria or Tunisia or Morocco look like today
他可能有柏柏尔血统，但
很显然，他的曾祖父母中没有一个拥有这样血统的祖先
地中海上的柏柏尔人与其他地中海人的关系更为密切，而不是撒哈拉以南的非洲人
这就是今天来自阿尔及利亚、突尼斯或摩洛哥的柏柏尔人的样子
I need to add that the Afrocentric concept of “everything was sub-saharan African” denigrates the deeds of African kings and civilization builders. Don’t grab someone else’s heritage and forget about your own.
我需要补充的是，非洲中心论者的“一切都是黑非洲来的”的概念诋毁了非洲国王和文明建设者。不要抢了别人的东西就丢了自己的东西。
Shirin Shirazi, Masters from University of Houston-Clear Lake (2019)
This is probably going to sound like a cop-out, but that depends on what you mean by being Black. White and Black were not recognized concepts in Antiquity, so we're going to have acknowledge that we are applying modern ideas onto the past.
Now that that's out of the way, the Severan dynasty of emperors are often claimed as being Black. That is because Septimus Severus' father was a Western Phoenician from North Africa, while his mother was Italian. It's probably fair to say that many modern people wouldn't have considered Septimus Severus White— but that doesn't automatically mean that modern people would see them as Black, either.
这听起来可能像是在曲解，但这取决于你所说的黑人是什么意思。白人和黑人在古代是不被认可的概念，所以我们必须承认，我们正在将现代理念应用到过去。
现在，这已经过时了，塞维鲁王朝的皇帝们经常被称为黑人。这是因为塞普蒂默斯·西弗勒斯的父亲是来自北非的西腓尼基人，而他的母亲是意大利人。公平地说，许多现代人不会认为塞普蒂默斯·西弗勒斯是白人，但这并不意味着现代人就应该认为他们是黑人。
Mind you, I've seen arguments that ancient North Africans were all Black, but their logic often leaves a lot to be desired. Here's a good example:
In fact, the earliest humans on earth, according to science, were black-skinned African people. The farther back into the past one goes, the Blacker the [African] continent is from south to north. This means that the presence in the north of Amazighs and Arabs, who did not originate in Africa but who have now been resident in Africa for nearly 2,000 years, represents a more recent population than the black population.
现代北非人的外貌差异很大：从金发和白皙皮肤到黑发和非常黑的皮肤，而巴布利乌斯·塞普蒂默斯·赫塔的长相尚不清楚。我们确实知道他的儿子和孙子长什么样，我也不太相信他们今天会被认为白人，特别是因为他的孙子有一位阿拉伯母亲。
请注意，我看到过一些论点，认为古代北非人都是黑人，但他们的这种逻辑往往站不住脚。这有一个很好的例子：
事实上，根据科学研究，地球上最早诞生的人类是黑非洲人。追溯到过去，非洲大陆上的人从南到北的颜色越往南越黑。这意味着，北非的亚马齐格人和阿拉伯人，他们并非起源于黑非洲，但现在他们已经在非洲居住了近2000年，代表着比黑非洲原住民更近代的人种。
Other arguments try to claim that the Arab invasions substantially changed the way modern North Africans look, but the historical record and genetic analysis don't back this idea up. The Rashidun And Fatimid caliphates did not have enough Quryash Arabs to completely replace the populations of the places they conquered and were also heavily dependent on local elites to serve as bureaucrats. Genetic analysis of modern North Africans, both Amazigh and Arabs, indicates that they are more closely related to each other than the people of West Asia.
这种观点完全错了。阿马齐格人来自于北非，并在那里生活了2000多年。他们最早的祖先来自公元前5000年，当腓尼基人开始在北非殖民时，他们就已经存在了。
其他观点试图声称阿拉伯入侵极大地改变了现代北非人的样貌，但历史记录和基因分析并不支持这一观点。阿拉伯帝国的哈里发没有足够的阿拉伯人口来完全替换他们征服的地方的人口，而且还严重依赖当地精英担任官僚。对现代北非人，包括亚马齐格人和阿拉伯人的基因分析表明，他们之间的关系比与西亚人更为密切。
The Short Answer: No.
The Long Answer: Were there “black” Roman Emperors? No. Were there african Roman Emperors? Most certainly. The best example of this would have to be Septimius Severus, who was born in Leptis Magna, today approximately Khoms, on the modern-day northwestern coast of Libya. His wife, Iulia Domna (usually rendered Julia Domna) was an Arab born in Emesa, Syria (now Homs). Her sons, Geta and Caracella, who ascended the throne after Septimius Severus’ death, were thus half libyan and half arabic. Furthermore, the Emperor Elagabalus was of mixed descent - his father, Sextus Varius Marcellus, was a Roman Syrian, of whom very little is know, other than he was an equestrian (nobleman), Iulia (Julia) Soaemias, an arabic princess - in other words, Septimius Severus was libyan, his sons were half arabic and half libyan, and the man who succeeded his sons was half italian (roman) and half arabic. Now, they would not really fit the term “black”, in the modern sense if the word, as they were not sub-saharan african, but they were most certainly not white.
简短的回答：没有。
详细的回答：有“黑人”罗马皇帝吗？没有，有非洲罗马皇帝吗？当然有。最好的例子就是塞普蒂米乌斯·西弗勒斯，他出生在今天霍姆斯附近的利普蒂斯马格纳，位于现代利比亚西北海岸。他的妻子Iulia Domna（通常被称为Julia Domna）是阿拉伯人，出生于叙利亚的埃梅萨（现霍姆斯）。塞普蒂米乌斯·西弗勒斯去世后，她的两个儿子格塔和卡拉塞拉即位，因此他们一半血统是利比亚人，一半血统是阿拉伯人。此外，埃拉加巴勒斯皇帝是混血儿——他的父亲塞克斯图斯·瓦里乌斯·马塞卢斯是叙利亚人，他还是一名骑手（贵族）、阿拉伯公主尤利亚·索埃米亚斯——换句话说，塞普蒂米乌斯·塞维鲁斯是利比亚人，他的儿子是半阿拉伯半利比亚人，继承他儿子血统的人有一半意大利人（罗马人）血统，一半是阿拉伯人血统。按现在的看法，他们既不是撒哈拉以南的非洲人，也肯定不是白人，那么他们就不符合现代意义上的“黑人”一词。
Even if it is true, it will be denied and questioned by white supremacists and their brainwashed followers.
The Roman Empire was a white empire with only white emperors. In addition, white supremacists have created the Negro stereotype only being found south of the Sahara. The only Blacks in Africa are “Sub-Saharans”. If there were Blacks among Roman Emperors, it would mean that these Blacks came from North and Saharan Africa. “White North Africa” is a blatant lie, then.
即使真的有过，白人至上主义者及其被洗脑的追随者也会对此予以否认和质疑。
什么什么罗马帝国是一个只有白人皇帝的白人帝国。此外，白人至上主义者创造了只有在撒哈拉以南才能发现的黑人刻板印象。非洲唯一的黑人是“黑非洲人”。如果罗马皇帝中有黑人，那就意味着这些黑人来自北非和撒哈拉非洲。那么，“白人北非”就是一个明目张胆的谎言。
As someone noted : Under the Roman empire, would not discriminate: slaves were both white and black (so were Emperors and Popes)
Black Roman Emperors Macrinus and Emilianus were Romanized Moors.
Here is a lix on African Roman Emperors and other Africans who distinguished themselves in the Roman Empire.
The History of an African Emperor
Google search all the names of the people that follow:
Interestingly, at least ten Africans became Emperors of Rome. They are listed on the historical record as the following: Macrinus, Firmus, Emilianus, Septimius Serverus, Pescennius Niger, Aquilus Niger, Brutidius Niger, Q. Caecilus Niger, Novius Niger, and Trebius Niger who was a proconsul in Spain.
Black Popes Miltiades and Gelasius were Romanized Moors.
St. Miltiades | TheDailyMass.com
实话实说，罗马帝国是一个跨大洲、多种族的帝国（就像其它所有经久不衰的帝国一样），任何种族、肤色和地区的人只要有能力夺取王位，都可以登上帝国的宝座。
正如有人指出的那样：在罗马帝国时期，奴隶不会存在种族歧视：奴隶既有白人也有黑人（皇帝和教皇也是如此）
黑人罗马皇帝马克里努斯和埃米利亚努斯是罗马化的摩尔人。
这里有一个关于非洲罗马皇帝和其他在罗马帝国中脱颖而出的非洲人的链接。
《非洲皇帝的历史》
谷歌搜索到了以下这些人：
有趣的是，至少有十个非洲人成为了罗马的皇帝。他们被列在历史记录中如下：马克里努斯、菲尔默斯、埃米利亚努斯、塞普蒂米乌斯·瑟弗勒斯、佩森纽斯·尼日尔、阿奎卢斯·尼日尔、布鲁蒂迪乌斯·尼日尔、Q.凯西鲁斯·尼日尔、诺维乌斯·尼日尔。还有特雷比乌斯·尼日尔，他是西班牙总督。
黑人教皇米尔提亚德斯和格拉修斯是罗马化的摩尔人。
St. Miltiades served as pope from July 2, 311, to January 10, 314. Shortly after he became pope, the Church’s persecution under the Roman emperors ended with an edict of toleration and the ascension of a new Christian emperor, Constantine I. Properties that had been taken from the Church were returned, and Constantine gave Pope Miltiades the Lateran Palace as his residence.
Some scholars believe that Miltiades was one of three African men who have served as pope. The other two are Pope St. Victor I and Pope St. Gelasius.
The King and his gift
Representations of black men as Roman Emperors are not unusual in Dutch and European art: they are found, for example, on a number of cameos from the sixteenth century.
In circa 1586/88 Queen Elizabeth I of England gave her favourite Sir Francis Drake a jewel decorated with a black Roman emperor and a white woman.Karen C.C. Dalton argues that the concept of the black emperor is connected with alchemy and stands for Saturn.
从公元311年7月2日到314年1月10日，圣米提亚德斯担任教皇。在他成为教皇后不久，罗马皇帝对教堂的迫害以一项宽容法令结束，新的基督教皇帝君士坦丁一世登基。皇帝从教堂夺走的财产被归还，君士坦丁将拉特兰宫作为教皇米提亚德的住所。
一些学者认为米尔提亚德斯是三位担任过教皇的非洲人之一。另外两位是教皇圣维克托一世和教皇圣格拉修斯。
《国王和他的礼物》
在荷兰和欧洲的艺术创作中，黑人作为罗马皇帝的形象并不罕见：例如，在十六世纪的一些浮雕上就可以找到。
大约在1586/88年，英国女王伊丽莎白一世送给她最喜爱的弗朗西斯·德雷克爵士一颗饰有黑罗马皇帝和白人女性的珠宝。卡伦·C·道尔顿认为，黑皇帝的概念与炼金术有关，代表土星（塔罗牌里的黑皇帝）。
I’m sorry but this answer is horribly wrong. First off of those 10 “Emperors”, 6 of them never existed at all.
Firmus, Novius Niger, Caecilus Niger, Brutidius Niger, Aquilus Niger, and Trebius Niger were not emperors.
Trebius was proconsul in 150 BC (123 years before the Empire)
Bruntidius was a historian.
Firmus was a fabricated account of a man in the Historia Augusta. He never existed
Novius, Caecilus, and Aquilus never existed at all. In fact all of those names are just “gens” names meaning they were family names. Nobody would be named that- It would be like me calling you “Marie Black”. But there are no records of any of those men existing at all
很抱歉，这个答案大错特错。在你声称的这10位“皇帝”中，有6位根本不存在。
菲尔穆斯、诺维乌斯·尼日尔、凯西卢斯·尼日尔、布鲁蒂迪乌斯·尼日尔、阿奎卢斯·尼日尔和特雷比乌斯·尼日尔都不是皇帝。
特里比乌斯于公元前150年（比罗马帝国早123年）成为总督
布伦蒂迪斯是一位历史学家。
菲尔莫斯是《奥古斯塔史记》中一个虚构的人物。他从未存在过
诺维乌斯、凯西卢斯和阿奎卢斯根本不存在。事实上，所有这些名字都只是“氏族”的名字，意味着它们是家族的名字。没有人会这样称呼你——就像我叫你“玛丽·布莱克”。但根本没有这些人存在的记录
For instance, Pescennius Niger was white. He was born in Italy to wealthy Roman Equestrians. The “Niger” in his name was a nickname. His rival for the throne, Clodius Albinus was nicknamed “the white” and thus Pescennius got the name “Niger” being.
Septimius was half Punic and half Italian. Now if you call Punic black that sure he was black but busts, descxtions, and DNA tests reveal that Punic peoples were Middle Eastern/Greek ethnically. Was Septimius Severus a Black Roman Emperor? - Tales of Times Forgotten
Macrinus was a Berber so this comes down to definitions of “black”.
I’m interested in where those fake emperors came from? I speak Latin and have read every source document known to us and those men do not exist.
这些名字大多只是氏族的姓。你似乎认为“尼日尔”的意思是黑色皮肤，而这只表明了对罗马人如何命名事物的误解。
例如，佩森纽斯·尼日尔是白人。他出生在意大利，出身于富有的罗马骑士家庭。他名字中的“尼日尔”是一个昵称。他的王位竞争对手克洛迪厄斯·阿尔比努斯绰号叫“白人”，因此佩森纽斯绰号叫“黑人”。
塞普蒂米乌斯是半迦太基人，半意大利人。现在，如果你称布匿人为黑人，那么他肯定是黑人，但半身像、描述和DNA测试显示，布匿族是中东/希腊人种。
来源：《塞普蒂米乌斯·西弗勒斯是罗马黑人皇帝吗？被遗忘的时代的故事》
马克里努斯是柏柏尔人，所以他在某种程度上算是“黑人”。
我想知道那些虚构的皇帝是从哪里编出来的？我会说拉丁语，读过我们所知的所有原始文献，这些人根本不存在。
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