韩国30岁以上者超过42%未婚

level 1
Well the current way of living doesn't really leave much room to marry and grow children. People are too busy with work.

当今的生活方式，给结婚和生育留下的空间真的不多。人们的工作太忙了。

HisAnger
I would just wish to add to that ... you are working most of the time to get a home or apartment, just to have a place to raise your kids.
Current prices of this are just insane due to speculation and investments from big players.
edit:
Simply to say it is hard to find wife and have kids if you can't provide basic conditions for them.

我只想补充一点……你大部分打工时间是为了有一个家或一套公寓，只是为了有一个地方抚养你的孩子。
由于大玩家们的投机、投资，现在的居所价格简直是疯了。
编辑：简单地说，如果你不能提供基本的生活条件，就很难找到老婆、生孩子。

acatinasweater
Sounds like where the US is headed.

听起来这是美国的发展方向。

Sympathy
Headed? Many parts of the US is already there.

方向？美国许多地方已经如此了。

fuckeroff
I have friends making like $80k who haven't moved out yet because housing is so expensive.

我有一些朋友年收入8万美元，还没有搬出父母家，因为房子太贵了。

kaptainkeel
I got priced out of my old apartment building. $1,200 at the end of 2019 (lease was end of summer 2020 so that should give a better idea). Today, the lowest price in the building is about $1,700. My old apartment is north of $1,800. In barely a year.
I made about $43k when I was there. If I wanted to still qualify, I'd need to make nearly $65k. Yeah, my income has definitely gone up by 50% in a year. /s

因为付不起房租，我被赶出了曾经的公寓。它2019年底的价格是1200美元。如今，最低价格约为1700美元——不到一年时间内涨了这么多。
我住在那儿时一年挣4.3万美元。如果我还想住得起，我需要赚差不多6.5万美元。真不错，看来我的收入肯定能一年涨50%。

JustgoofinMTG
Yup. I was renting an apartment in the shitty part of town back in 2017/2018 for $800 month. It was a one bedroom and we heard gunshots almost every single night. We moved to the nice part of town from 2018-2020 and it cost roughly $1700/mo for a 2 bedroom, and the apartment was falling apart because it was built in 1972.
We had to move 3 towns over just to find a place to rent for under $1500 in 2021. It's insane how horrible the current market is. My plan to own a house is to inherent my parents when they finally pass on.

是的。17、18年时候，我以每月800美元的价格在城里的贫民区租了一套公寓。那是一间卧室，我们几乎每晚都能听到枪声。18年到20年，我们搬到了城里的好地段，一间两居室的公寓每月的价格是1700多美元，而且这公寓而正在崩坏，因为它建于1972年。
2021年，我们不得不找了3个城镇，才找到一个租金低于1500美元的地方。现在的市场简直是疯了。我对拥有一所房子的计划是，等我父母去世后继承遗产。

slykethephoxenix
Canada, Australia, NZ, UK among others too.

加拿大、澳大利亚、新西兰、英国等等也是如此。

tokyogettopussy
We’ve had this problem for 20 years. Someone figured out that you can extort the local population if you buy up all the property and greedy capitalist pigs are going greed

这个问题已经困扰我们20年了。已经有人发现，如果你买下所有的地产，你可以敲诈当地人。贪婪的资本主义猪总会贪婪。

stonertboner
We’re already there. My wife and I make around $90,000 a year between the two of us and can only afford a small apartment. If we weren’t married we would still need room mates. You can certainly rule out children for us.

我们已经如此了。我和妻子两个人一年挣9万美元左右，只能买得起一套小公寓。如果我们没有结婚，我们还得和室友合租。我们绝对不会要孩子的。

shamblingman
The crazy part of Korean work hours is that statistics show that they work late for no reason and are just sitting there. GDP per hour worked in Korea is horribly low.
This indicates that Koreans are just sitting at their desk for long hours without doing anything productive.
Lobor productivity per hour in Korea is around 38. The US is at 110. Korea's productivity per hour worked is less than South Africa. All Korean employees could easily go home at 5 or 6pm. It's tradition forcing them to stay late and they aren't producing any work during those hours.

关于韩国人工作时间的疯狂之处在于，统计数据显示，他们毫无理由地加班——只是坐在那儿。在韩国，单位工时创造的GDP低得可怕。
这表明，韩国人只是长时间坐在办公桌前，而毫无成效。
韩国每小时的劳动生产率约为38。美国是110。韩国的每小时劳动生产率比南非还低。所有韩国员工本可以在下午5、6点就轻松回家。是加班文化迫使他们毫无意义地留下来。

Smarpar
This is true for most people. There’s a handful of studies that put average productivity for a work day between 3-4 hours regardless of time worked overall. We are basically productive in half hour intervals throughout the day. Either way, it’s a waste to have work days longer than 6 hours imo.

这对大多数人都是如此。有一些研究表明，不管实际工作时间长短，一天的平均工作效率都在3~4小时之间。不管怎样，在我看来，每天工作超过6个小时是一种浪费。

reasonabletakes9301
Worked for a Korean company back in 2016. Let me add to this comment.
I came to work 15 minutes early at 7:45 every day. I went home at 5:00pm. (Also, Korea excludes the 1 hour lunch break as "work time", so you're technically spending 9 hours at work)
People started complaining that I'm leaving work on time, so ever since then I had to wait until 5:05pm until I could leave.

2016年曾在一家韩国公司工作。让我补充说明一下。
我每天7:45提前15分钟上班。下午5点我回家了。(而且，韩国的工作时间不包括1小时的午餐时间，所以严格来说你要工作9个小时)
人们开始抱怨我的准时下班，所以从那以后我不得不等到5点05分才能下班。

meatball77
Isn't the cram school culture really big in Korea? So parents aren't really able to enjoy being a parent because there is so much academic pressure.

补习班文化不是在韩国很盛行吗？所以父母们为人父母之乐，因为有太多的学业压力。

AnyoneButDoug
Highschoolers have to stay at school studying until 10pm, some take a bus from the school to English lessons at an academy afterwards. I lived there a few years teaching English and loved Korea and Koreans but the school culture and work culture told me I wouldn't enjoy being Korean. I had a Korean friend slide into a depression when he felt he had almost no time he wasn't working. It's somewhat common-ish for men to stay near their workplace all weekdays and only come home to their wives on weekends, my boss' husband did this for instance.

高中生必须在学校学习到晚上10点，放学后还会有一些人从学校乘公共汽车去上英语私课。我在那儿教了几年英语，我喜欢韩国和韩国人，但学校和工作文化让我明白，我不想成为韩国人。我有一个韩国朋友抑郁了，因为他觉得自己没有非工作时间。男人工作日待在工作地点附近成了惯例，只有周末才回到妻子身边，我老板的丈夫就是这样。

InnocentTailor
Koreans are definitely hardcore when it comes to education. I don't think the Japanese education system is that aggressive and the Chinese are clamping down on this problem as well.

韩国人在教育方面绝对硬核。我不认为日本的教育系统有那么激进，中国人也在打压这个问题。

TheBobDoleExperience
I’m currently living in Japan. Between School, club activities, cram school, and English Eikaiwa’s, many Japanese students have 12+ hour school days. Oh, and a lot of them have school for half a day on Saturday.
It’s pretty bad here too.

我现在住在日本。学校、社团活动、补习班和英语课等等，许多日本学生每天要学习12个小时以上。哦，他们很多人周六要上半天课。
日本也很糟糕。

MadamBeramode
Lived in Korea for the better part of a decade, so I can give you my input.
Those who get married are expected to have children. Children are pressured to get married and once they are, they are then pressured to have children.
Korea has many of the same issues as most first world countries who fertility rates are decreasing, but a few additional ones as well.
Stagnant wages. Wages haven't kept up with the cost of living. This makes it very difficult for a single person (presumably the father) to be a breadwinner for their spouse and their children. Even both spouses working can still not make enough money to afford the cost of living. Furthermore if both spouses are working, there's no one to really take care of the children.

我在韩国生活了将近十年，所以可以谈谈我的见解。
那些结婚的人被期待着要孩子。孩子们受到催婚压力，而一旦结婚，他们又受到要孩子的压力。
韩国面临着许多出生率下降的第一世界国家的共性问题，但也有一些额外的问题。
一、工资停滞不前。工资跟不上生活成本的增长。这令单身者(大概率是父亲)很难成为配偶和孩子的经济支柱。即使夫妻双方都工作，也挣不到足够的钱应对生活支出。此外，如果夫妻双方都工作，就没有人照看孩子。

Cost of housing. Cost of housing has exponentially grown over the last decade in Korea. Families can't afford housing while also trying to support a family. People can't afford housing that can accommodate a family, so they simply don't have children.
Gender equality. Many women in Korea no longer want to be the stay at home housewife. This means they are much less reluctant to have children who will "burden" them with staying at home. They want financial independence, even if married. Without a parent to remain at home with the children, couples don't want to have children. This is one of the reasons why a lot of women don't want to get married. Many are aiming to become a "Gold Miss", which is a term for a financially independent older woman.
Lack of a support network. Maternity/Paternity leave, lack of daycares, etc. If both parents want to work, there's really no one but relatives/grandparents who can help take care of children. Not everyone has access to this and many don't want to burden their families. Without providing a safety net, parents won't have children.

二、住房成本。过去10年，韩国的住宅价格呈指数级暴增。很多家庭负担不起一边供房一边努力养家。如果人们负担不起一个称之为家的地方，那他们干脆就不生孩子。
三、性别平等。在韩国，很多女性不再想做家庭主妇。这意味着她们不太愿意生孩子成为其实业负担。即便结婚了，她们也想要经济独立。没有父母一方留在家里照顾孩子，夫妻就不想要孩子。这就是很多女人不想结婚的原因之一。许多人都想成为“黄金单身女”——这是对经济独立的大龄单身女的称呼。
四、缺乏保障网络。产假、陪产假，缺乏日托等等。如果父母都想工作，除了亲戚或祖父母真的没人可以帮忙照看孩子——但并不是每个人都有这个条件，许多人不想给家族带来负担。如果不提供保障网络，父母就不会要孩子。

Work - Life balance. Working 9-6 plus overtime 5-6 days a week is not uncommon in Korea. This means people who work long, hellish hours are less likely to want to go home and then take care of their children or spend money to care for their children. They would rather relax and rest and spend that money on ways to help them cope with their work life. Furthermore many men simply don't want to go home to their spouse and children because of how exhausting their work is, so they simply make up an excuse and find a way to relax. This only creates more of a burden for the spouse at home.

Some countries have found ways to handle all 5 of these issues with varying levels of success. Korea has not and they keep trying to combat the symptoms or outright ignoring them instead of dealing with the root of the problem.
Until there's a better support network in place in the form of daycare and company support for paternity/maternity leave, cheaper housing, an increase in wages, improving the situation for women in the workplace, and improvements in work-life balance, the fertility rate will continue to fall.
Then the real problems begin. What happens to a society that is too top heavy? Where there are too many old people who vote and set the policies while no longer contributing to the economy? The young then have to shoulder the responsibility for dealing with that issue. Its not going to be a pretty picture.

五、工作生活间的平衡。在韩国，朝九晚六的工时加上每周5-6天的加班并不少见。这意味着，长时间劳累工作的人，可能不太想回家照看孩子或花钱照看孩子。他们宁愿放松休息一下，把钱花在释放工作压力上。此外，许多男性单纯因为工作太累而不想回家陪伴配偶和孩子，所以他们找借口放松放松——而这只会增加家里配偶的负担。
一些国家已经找到了应对这5个问题的办法，并取得了不同程度的成功。韩国没有，他们一直试图抵抗或完全忽视这些症状，而不是解决问题的根源。
除非有一个更好的保障网络，比如日托，公司对陪产假和产假的支持，更便宜的住房，提高工资，改善女性工作处境，改善工作与生活的平衡，生育率将继续下降。
那么真正的问题就来了。一个头重脚轻社会将发生什么？有太多的老年人投票、制定政策，却不再为经济做出贡献？而年轻人就必须承担起处理这个问题的责任。这个画面谈不上美好。

Fredwestlifeguard
I understand the classic 'two income trap' but does anyone know why housing in the developed world is so expensive and rising? Seems demand outstrips supply but a lot of the demand is investor led? How can that get sorted so that people can have a decent roof over their heads without paying 2/3 of their pay on a mortgage or rent? Honest question.....

我理解经典的“双重收入陷阱”，但有没有人知道为什么发达国家的房价这么贵，而且不断上涨？
似乎是因为供不应求，但很多需求是由投资主导的？如何解决这一问题，让人们不用支付三分之二的工资来支付贷款或租金，就能有一个体面的住所？

Neuchacho
Silver
Because a lot of the developed world treats real estate housing as an investment vehicle first and a basic human need secondarily.
In the US, local/city governments are largely funded by property taxes so they are incentivized to allow any means that gets house prices to rise. This leads to them making it as easy as possible for investors to come in and balloon prices which in turn prices more and more regular people out who just want a place to actually live and accrue equity.

There's simply very few controls on the market to prevent this kind of market movement. It's something that really, really needs to change.

因为很多发达国家首先把房地产视作一种投资工具，其次才是人类的基本需求。
在美国，地方、城市政府的资金主要来自房产税，所以政府有动机纵容一切让房价上涨的手段。这导致他们尽可能地让投资者进入、抬高价格，反过来又把越来越多的普通人赶出去，这些普通人只是想要一个住所、获取公平。
几乎没有什么市场控制措施阻止这种市场运动。这一点是非常非常需要改变的。

Redqueenhypo
My god I hate that houses are treated as an investment. It’s a place you live! Put your money in the goddamn stock market if you want to invest!

天哪，我讨厌把房子当成投资。这应该是你住的地方！如果你想投资，就把钱投到股市去吧!

RKU69
Important to note that this isn't just a personal choice, its been a policy of governments to develop housing as a market. Remember the US housing bubble? It was a consequence of the government and Wall St. doing everything they could to frx housing as a great investment, doesn't matter how much you go into debt, just get a house, any house!

值得注意的是，这不仅是个人的选择，也在于政府发展住房市场的政策。还记得美国房地产泡沫吗?这是政府和华尔街不遗余力把房地产作为巨大投资的结果——不管你负债多少，买一套房子吧，任何房子!

TiltSchweiger
Also, housing has become a business. A coue days ago in Berlin the people pushed through a referendum which forces the city of Berlin to buy up to 200.000 houses (or apartments) off of big investors so actual people can live in them and not use it as a holiday home. We celebrate it like a victory, but then you get noticed the investors only had to give up like 10% of the buildings they actually posses over here in Berlin. It's a fucking disgrace.

此外，住房已成为一项生意。几天前在柏林，人们通过了一项公投，要求柏林市从大投资商手中购买20万套房子和公寓，这样人们就可以住在里面，而不是用作度假屋。
我们像战争胜利那样庆祝，但你会发觉，投资者实际上只需要放弃他们在柏林拥有建筑的10%。真他妈丢人。

Apptubrutae
Don’t forget that most every municipality enforces rules on housing density that cap the potential number of units possible in a set area.
Therefore, desirable places can’t grow their housing sufficiently no matter who wants to build what.
For example, NYC now has quite stringent regulations on housing density and building height. The city wouldn’t be anywhere near as densely populated if it was destroyed and rebuilt at today’s standards.
Similarly, cities all over California that have boomed may have ordinances making them exclusively single family homes with decent sized lots, even as demand surges and the community would be best served by mid or high rise condos or apartments.
The plain fact is unless it’s suburban sprawl, the vast majority of city ordinances prohibit the type of development necessary to keep prices down.
This is not to say changing ordinances is the magic bullet. There is none. There are a multitude of variables at play and anyone saying “this is it!” is just wrong. It’s not the zoning or the incentives or the buildings codes or the developers or the economy alone. It’s all of it.

别忘了，大多数市政府都规定了住房密度，限制了特定区域内住房数量上限。因此，需求是得不到满足的
例如，纽约市现在对住房密度和建筑高度有相当严格的规定。如果这座城市被摧毁并按照今天的标准重建，其人口不可能像现在这么密集。
同样的，但加州所有热点城市都出台了相关法规，规定只能建造面积适中的单户住宅——虽然需求激增而且中高层的共有公寓才是最好选择。
显而易见的是，除非扩张郊区，否则绝大多数城市都禁止了可以降低房价的开发需求。

kronos319
What happens to a society that is too top heavy?
Most likely something similar to Japan. Growth will stagnate and there will be so much pressure on the productive youths that they will inevitably push back. Automation might help some sectors but there really needs to be a cultural shift and governmental action to alleviate the pressures mentioned by OP.

一个头重脚轻的社会将发生什么？
很可能像日本那样。经济将停滞不前，而生产力较强的年轻人面临的压力是如此巨大，他们将不可避免地反对。
自动化可能会帮助一些行业，但确实需要一个文化层面的转变和政府措施来缓解这些压力。

Caldeshan
Japan suffers from cultural issues around hyper conservatism and reactionary fears to economic slowdown. So called zombie corporations which in a natural market would fail are propped up by government subsidy to maintain the face of economic success. Employees in a hard-work-ethic culture sleep at their desks and devote long hours to the appearance of work rather than productivity. Companies got out of hand in the 80s and dutifully repaid the loans to the government that saved them from collapse in the 90s, but now are hesitant to seek investor income or loans or more aggressive growth strategies to prevent another runaway train.
A very tragic trainwreck in slow motion but you're not going to get people to turn their backs on ways of life that are centuries old and the foundation of their 'japaneseness'. They'd rather go extinct than fundamentally alter who they are.

日本面临的文化问题包括极端守旧主义和对经济放缓的保守主义恐惧。那些在自然市场应被淘汰的僵尸企业，在日本能享受政府补贴，以此来维持经济成功的表象。
在辛勤工作的文化氛围中，员工们睡在办公桌前，大量时间花在形式主义，而不是提高工作效率。上世纪80年代，日本企业曾陷入困境，政府提供贷款避免它们破产，企业在90年代如约还款。但现在，面对另一场困境，它们却对投资、贷款或者更激进的增长策略犹豫不决。
这场事故正在眼前慢慢发生，但无法让人们转变生活方式——这是几个世纪以来形成的，也是“日本性”的基础。他们宁愿灭绝也不愿从根本上改变自己。

murataffy
You worded it perfectly, best comment on this post. People in Korea put too much of an emphasis on working hard. Of course, there is a certain merit in working hard, but it’s not everything. Our country has (in my opinion) failed to realize that.

你解释得很好，对这篇文章最好的评论。
韩国人过分强调努力工作。当然，不能否认努力工作是有价值，但这不是一切。我们国家没有意识到这一点。

reallylovesguacamole
But do they have a choice? The comment doesn’t suggest that Koreans are choosing to work harder and longer and for that reason, don’t want children. It seems they don’t have a choice but to work that much to make ends meet, and adding on the time suck and expense of a child seems impossible to many of them.

但他们有选择吗？似乎并不是韩国人主动选择更努力、更长时间地工作，导致不想要孩子。他们似乎没得选择，只能工作这么长时间来维持收支平衡，而且对他们中的许多人来说，再增加花在孩子上的时间和开销似乎是不可能的。

shadowstrlke
It's a race to the bottom basically. You have to work hard not necessarily because the work you do is not of sufficient value to justify your pay, but because someone else is willing to work harder for a similar salary.

可以说这是一场恶性竞争。你必须努力工作，并不一定是因为你的劳动价值配不上你的薪水，而是因为其他人愿意为同样薪水更加努力工作。

LunaMunaLagoona
People greatly underestimate how this applies to most of the world.
The same is true in Canada, Australia and the UK.
US is a dumpster fire so let's not even go there.
It's only western Europe that has a good level of protections for the average person, and even then they have birth rate issues.

人们大大低估了这种情况在全世界其他地区的普遍性。
加拿大、澳大利亚和英国也是如此。
美国就像一场垃圾堆大火，所以都没必要讨论。
只有西欧对普通人有很好的保护，即便如此，他们也面临出生率问题。

JonnyTN
"If people aren't having babies, we'll make them have them!"
“如果人们不生孩子，我们就让他们生!”

Danbarber82
"But when they have the babies, we ain't doin' shit to support them at all! YEEHAW!"

“可是等他们真有了孩子，我们才不帮他们养育！”耶哦!

reallymisterj
I'm in my 30s, went to a university that had a big foreign student population. Of all the Korean friends I had, I can think of only 1 that is married and has a child. The rest are either career focused or have been in school for the past decade to avoid going back home and entering the workforce

我30多岁了，上的大学有很多外国学生。我所有韩国朋友中，我只记得有一个已经结婚并有了孩子。其余的人要么以事业为中心，要么过去10年一直在上学，以避免回家和进入职场。

MightyGoatLord
Does South Korea have de facto relationships, or is unmarried the same as single?

韩国有没有非婚同居关系？还是说未婚等同于单身?

Wretched_Brittunculi
There.are plenty of unmarried couples. But they are not so often living together and even more rarely have children. A poster above outlined the feminist case, which is legitimate. But men are also fed up with marriage. They complain that after two years of military service they need to devote themselves to work to get a high paying job. Without a prestigious job it is really hard to find a wife. Competition for everything in Korea is insane. Male makeup and plastic surgery are widespread for a reason. It's an arms race to be perfect. 8t has burnt out both men and women.

在韩国，有很多不结婚的爱人。但他们并不经常住在一起，更少生育孩子。
上面的帖子讲了女权主义的大概情况，讲的很合理。
但是男人也厌倦了婚姻。他们抱怨说，在服兵役两年之后，他们需要全身心地投入到工作中，才能得到一份高薪的工作。没有一份体面的工作，很难找到一个妻子。在韩国，竞争是疯狂的。男性化妆和整容手术潮流是有原因的。这是一场完美的军备竞赛。这让男人和女人都精疲力竭。

mliu4389
I am a Korean male and can relate to the Misogyny stuff. My dad is a piece of shit who treated my mom like shit. He did nothing around the house because thats a "woman's job" or hated the fact that my mom made more money to support his sorry ass. Always drunk spending HER money on lottery tickets and she couldn't say anything because it was against the social norm (in her generation) for woman to lash out or leave. Im glad woman are stepping up and starting to realize the BS social standards set by the Korean society. Many people look at dramas and think its all dandelions and roses but really its a garbage society that needs to change. Also like to add that when my mom had the courage to leave, her entire family and dads family shunned her because "woman dont leave their husbands".

我是一名韩国男性，可以说有厌女症。我爸爸就是个混蛋，他待我妈像屎一样。他在家中什么也不做，因为这是“女人的工作”，或者因为我妈妈赚了更多的钱来养活他这个可怜虫。
总是醉熏熏的，花她的钱买彩票，我妈无能为力，因为对她那一代人，女性斥责老公或离家违反社会规范。
我很高兴有女性站出来，开始认识到韩国社会的扯淡标准。许多人在看韩剧时会觉得都是蒲公英和玫瑰，但实际上这是一个急需改变的垃圾社会。
我还想补充一点，当我妈妈鼓起勇气离开时，她的整个家族和我爸的家族都对她避之不及，因为“女人不离开他们的丈夫”。

Getthekey
Buy a dog and die alone . Easy choice

买条狗，孤独终老。简单的选择。

Psyched_investor
Wholesome
I fled South Korea, my motherland, to relocate to the States several years ago in my thirties. I felt so lucky. South Korea has the highest suicide rate among OECD nations. This says it all. It is a challenging place to win breads and live happily. The societal sentiment is too competitive and people are living in a constant cut-throat battle. The marriage is viewed not as a coalition of two individuals but a merge of two families with competing “monetary” and “hierarchical” interests. It is good to visit and spend money on eating/drinking though (food is awesome).

几年前，30多岁的我逃离了我的祖国韩国，搬到了美国。我感到非常幸运。在经合组织中，韩国的自杀率最高。这说明了一切。在这里，挣得面包、幸福生活很有挑战性。社会的竞争情绪太过激烈，人们生活在一场持续的、你死我活的战斗中。婚姻不是为两个人的结合，而是两个家庭的合并，在“金钱”和“等级”利益上相互竞争。不过，去韩国旅游、体验美食还是不错的。