印度网友：为什么印度人在奥运会上表现不好?
Why Indians don't do well at Olympics?
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印度网友：为什么印度人在奥运会上表现不好?
正文翻译
I checked out some profile of athletes competing in Olympics 2020. And I realised that most of them are very highly educated, especially people from developed countries. Many young athletes are starting their education at top colleges. William Shaner, who won gold medal for USA in 10m Air rifle, is a kid pursuing engineering at University of Kentucky.
我看了一些参加2020年奥运会的运动员的简介，然后意识到他们中的大多数人都受过高等教育，尤其是那些来自发达国家的人。许多年轻运动员开始在顶尖大学接受教育。为美国赢得10米气步枪金牌的威廉·沙纳是肯塔基大学的一名学习工程学的孩子。
Anna Kiesenhofer, who won god medal for Austria in cycling, is a Post Doctorate in Mathematics at Swiss Federal Institute of Technology. Before that, she did her masters in University of Cambridge.
安娜·基森霍费尔是奥地利自行车比赛的金牌获得者，她是瑞士联邦理工学院的数学博士后。在此之前，她在剑桥大学攻读硕士学位。
Charlotte HYM, who is competing for France in skateboarding, has a PHD in neuroscience. I mean just imagine if any of the middle class Indian kids tell to their parents that they are doing Skateboarding. They would just simply not accept.
代表法国参加滑板比赛的夏洛特·海姆拥有神经科学博士学位。我的意思是，想象一下，任何一个印度中产阶级的孩子如果告诉自己的父母，说他们在玩滑板。那些父母完全不会接受。
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代表法国参加滑板比赛的夏洛特·海姆拥有神经科学博士学位。我的意思是，想象一下，任何一个印度中产阶级的孩子如果告诉自己的父母，说他们在玩滑板。那些父母完全不会接受。
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It is quite encouraging that these people get scholarships due to their athletic abilities in top colleges, but if people are doing their PhDs and stuff, then that means they are also genuinely interested in the subjects. They aren’t in top colleges just because they are good at certain sports.
令人鼓舞的是，这些人因为他们的运动能力而在顶尖大学获得奖学金，但如果他们在攻读博士学位之类的东西，那就意味着他们也真的对这些学科感兴趣。他们不是因为擅长某些运动才进入顶尖大学的。
令人鼓舞的是，这些人因为他们的运动能力而在顶尖大学获得奖学金，但如果他们在攻读博士学位之类的东西，那就意味着他们也真的对这些学科感兴趣。他们不是因为擅长某些运动才进入顶尖大学的。
Thats the issue with Indian education. First, colleges don’t accept athletic abilities while considering admissions Second, Indians think if you are concentrating on sports, then that means you are trading off your education. They think its a zero sum game, when it is clearly not.
这就是印度教育的问题。首先，大学在招生时不承认体育能力。其次，印度人认为，如果你专注于体育，那就意味着你会牺牲掉教育。他们认为这是一场零和游戏，但事实显然并非如此。
这就是印度教育的问题。首先，大学在招生时不承认体育能力。其次，印度人认为，如果你专注于体育，那就意味着你会牺牲掉教育。他们认为这是一场零和游戏，但事实显然并非如此。
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Oh my god dude. Listen I understand where you’re coming from. I pretty much had the similar worldview a year ago. But d’you realise the difference there is in these countries and India? We can cry about being born here all we want( believe me I have) but it’s what we have. We live in an overpopulated country with super limited resources. And by super limited I mean it. Even just by being able to speak English and articulate your thoughts so well you’re at an advantage compared to About 50% of the country.
天啊，伙计。听着，我理解你的想法。一年前我也有类似的世界观。但你意识到这些国家和印度的不同了吗?我们可以为出生在这里而哭泣(相信我)，但这就是我们的天生情况。我们生活在一个人口过剩的国家，资源超级有限。我说的超级有限是指，即使你仅仅是会说英语，能够清晰地表达你的想法，你也比全大约50%的人有优势。
现在，回到你的问题。对于印度不鼓励体育的简单原因，我重复一下我在r/Indian_academia上读到的东西，我认为是基本上是这样的，如果你在印度守门员中排名第2000位，你就会饿死。而如果你是Android程序员，无论你排名第2000位还是第20000位，你的收入都足够让自己吃饱喝足，过上体面的生活。
在印度，我们完全没有一个网络来支持那些为体育奋斗的人。或者任何一种支持网络。这就是为什么这种风险巨大的职业在印度不受鼓励的原因。
In the 1980s, China had a lower GDP per Capita than India and still was ranked 2nd/3rd in Olympics.
上世纪80年代，中国的人均GDP低于印度，但他们在奥运会上仍然排名第二/第三。
If you look at how China prepares there athletes , they have a unified system where your passion/interest towards a sports category is clubbed together with studies and it is fully funded by government , which means tuition expenses , living expenses and lodging expenses.
This way they prepare their athletes from early age.
如果你看看中国是如何培养运动员的，你就会发现他们有一个统一的系统，其中的运动员对某一体育项目的热情和兴趣是与学习结合在一起的，而这个系统是完全由政府资助的，包括学费、生活费和住宿费。
这样，他们的运动员从小就在为比赛做准备。
Exactly. I watched a video where they trained their Olympic weightlifters, they start at the age of 7ish, obviously they will be better trained than us. No wonder she won the 49kg class for china
完全正确。我看过他们训练奥运举重运动员的视频，他们7岁左右就开始训练了，显然他们会比我们训练得更好。难怪她为中国赢得了49公斤级的金牌。
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Adding to that, once you get into a top tier college, there is hardly any support from them. I was in the chess team of my college and we never visited any other college for competitions as professors will not accommodate for the missed lab sessions.
Once you miss a lab session you lose easy marks for your final score which is really bad considering relative grading (You are 10 marks behind everyone else and that is a straight up C grade)
此外，一旦你进入一流大学，他们几乎不会给你任何支持。我在大学的象棋队，我们从来没有去任何其他学院比赛，因为教授不会为我们错过的实验课程做安排。
一旦你错过了一节实验课，你的最终分数就会很低，考虑到相对评分，这真的很糟糕(如果你比其他人落后10分，你会直接拿一个C)。
Oh lol as someone who is starting college soon that does not sound very promising for me ??
哈哈，作为一个即将开始上大学的人，对我来说，这听起来不是很有希望吗?
Well, indian education system is not promising et all..
嗯，印度的教育体系并不乐观……
Income, education, sporting ability, overall growth. These all are interlixed, we can't say for sure which causes what. But one way we can improve in all these aspects is to bring out millions of people still living in poverty and push millions in middle class to some higher category.
It's just not because colleges don't give much scholarships for athletes, why would they give if they don't have any incentive?
收入，教育，运动能力，整体增长。这些都是相互关联的，我们不能确定哪个原因会导致什么结果。但我们可以改善这些方面的一个方法是，让数百万仍生活在贫困中的人走出困境，把数百万中产阶级推到更高的阶层。
不仅是因为大学不给运动员提供大量奖学金，如果没有任何激励，他们为什么要给呢?
Their universities have super nice sports facilities. In those countries, taking up sports doesn't mean you cannot finish or do well in education as sports facilities are right inside the college.
Such facilities are very limited in India. May be some IITs etc have olympics scale facilities for some sports (some). Most pvt college hardly have these facilities
他们的大学有非常好的体育设施。在这些国家，参加体育运动并不意味着你不能完成学业，或者不能在学业上取得好成绩，因为体育设施就在大学里。
这类设施在印度非常有限。也许有些印度理工学院有奥运会规模的体育设施。大多数私立大学几乎没有这些设施。
My two cents. I think it's a combination of a few factors:
A) community level professional support and facilities for kids ages 5-15. Every decent suburb town in USA have sports facilities better than national level facilities in India. Army schools in India do provide this and they do grow up to be better in sports but usually peter out. So essentially it's only enough.
B) economic stability : have 1-2 generations where getting a job/ money isn't the isn't key obxtive of life. For western societies this was the generation post world war. They have social systems with a economic safety net( social security) in their collective memory and can take 5 years out of their young adulthood to focus on other stuff.
C) systemic investment in sports institutions with a focussed approach for Olympics like China/russia. One one extreme, focus on a batch of few sports where medals can be won, identify a small batch of kids around age 5 and train them like crazy, once they create a few champions, they would go out and create more champions. Eg: Padukone/ gopichand in badminton.
Irrespective for me A) is the single most important thing. I have lived in medium towns in USA and I can just pick up almost any sport for almost free( am middle aged) and play/train at a level I would have only dreamed about in India.
说说我的浅见。我认为这是几个因素结合的结果:
1）在社区层面为5-15岁的孩子提供专业支持和设施。美国每个像样的郊区城镇的体育设施都比印度的国家级设施好。印度的陆军学校确实提供了这些，他们长大后在体育方面会有更好的表现，但通常会逐渐消失。所以本质上这是足够的。
2）经济稳定:让1-2代人不再把工作和金钱作为生活的主要目标。对西方社会来说，二战后的一代人就是如此。在他们的集体记忆中，有一个经济安全网络(社会保障)的社会体系，他们可能会花5年的时间来专注于其他事情。
3）为了专注于奥运会，对体育机构进行系统性投资，比如中国/俄罗斯。这是一种极端的做法，专注于少数几个可以赢得奖牌的运动，找出一小批5岁左右的孩子，疯狂地训练他们，一旦他们创造了几个冠军，他们就会出人头地，创造更多的冠军。例如羽毛球方面的Padukone/gopichand。
我觉得第一种是最重要的事情。我在美国的中等城镇生活，我几乎可以免费学习任何运动(我是中年人)，并以我在印度做梦都想不到的水平进行训练。
A heavy meat based diet and lots of exercise/sports is very common in western countries.
以肉类为主的饮食和大量的运动在西方国家是很普遍的。
It is a fact and I don't know why you are getting downvoted.
这是事实，我不知道你为什么会被点踩。
TIL Japan and China are western countries
日本和中国是西方国家咯？
It’s common there too
在那里肉食也很普遍。
I read that as "heavy metal" diet and got confused for a second.
我读成了“重金属”饮食，懵逼了一秒钟。
Fucking weird periority. In india people die to hunger every single day and you are concern about some individual medals. I rather want my government to spend money on food and water facility for poor than to see some random person winning medal.
你们的重点真特么奇怪。在印度，每天都有人死于饥饿，而你却关心一些个别的奖牌。我宁愿印度政府把钱花在穷人的食物和水设施上，而不是看到某个随机的人赢得奖牌。
That’s such a narrow way to look at things. So we should stop funding ISRO because going to the moon isn’t as big a priority as solving hunger.
Hunger is a huge area where we have to work but that doesn’t mean that we stop looking at other areas, specially those which have the potential to provide a livelihood and uplift people out of hunger and poverty.
这种看待事物的方式太狭隘了。按你的逻辑，我们应该停止资助ISRO，因为登月并没有解决饥饿那么重要。
饥饿是一个我们必须为止工作的巨大领域，但这并不意味着我们停止关注其他领域，特别是那些有潜力提供生计，并帮助人们摆脱饥饿和贫困的领域。
Ask most Indians :
Will you encourage your son/daughter to take up a career in sports ?
The answer will be NO, unless it is cricket. And therein lies part of the problem.
Countries which became powerhouses did this :
invest lot of money in sport facilities, trainings at school/college level
Setup support services to make sports a viable "profession".
That's all .. that is all it would take.
In India, the sports organizations are handled by politicians who have no interest in all this. The state's funding is minimal.
We thus rely on handful of truly motivated passionate players who excel despite the state's apathy.
问问大多数印度人:
你会鼓励你的儿子/女儿从事体育事业吗?
答案是否定的，除非是板球运动。这就是我们问题的一部分。
成为体育强国的国家是这样做的:
在体育设施和学校/大学水平的训练上投入大量资金
设置支持服务，使体育成为一个可行的“职业”。
这就是，这就是它所需要的一切。
在印度，体育组织是由政客管理的，他们对所有这些都不感兴趣。国家层面的资金非常少。
因此，我们依靠的是少数真正有动力、充满激情的选手，他们在国家冷漠的情况下仍然表现出色。
Just go take a peek at the childhood nutrition statistics. That’s 80% of the answer right there.
去看看儿童营养统计数据吧。这就回答了这个问题的80%。
look at the hunger index, mal-nutrition level in India. A lot of the population doesn't even stand a chance at competing. Add other socio-economic factors and you get bad performance at the olympics.
Also, I'm not sure the role of performance-enhancing drugs, but their use is rampant in top-level athletes. Coaches in developed nations can afford off-the-chart designer drugs that can't even be detected by WADA. Drug detection methods are always a step behind newly created experimental PEDs.
看看印度的饥饿指数，营养不良水平。很多人根本不可能参加比赛。再加上其他社会经济因素，我们在奥运会上的表现就会很差。
此外，我不确定药物在提高成绩方面有多大作用，但药物的使用在顶级运动员中非常猖獗。发达国家的教练们可以负担得起一些特制药物，甚至世界反兴奋剂机构都检测不到。药物检测方法总是落后于新创建的实验性兴奋剂。
No sports culture. There are 13 year olds participating in Women's skateboarding right now at the Olympics!
Edit: And they won Gold and Silver respectively!
印度没有体育文化。现在有13岁的孩子参加奥运会女子滑板比赛!
编辑:他们分别获得了金牌和银牌!
That's because our schools and colleges don't encourage any kind of sports participation. I made it to the District Cricket team and had one of our match clashing with my unit test exam in school. My school straight away rejected my request for an extension date for me.
这是因为我们的学校和大学不鼓励任何形式的体育参与。我进入了地区板球队，我们的一场比赛与我在学校的单元考试相冲突。我的学校直接拒绝了我的延期申请。
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this thread happens every 4 years
you seem to have done the research homework. Now please ruminate on this and explain why:
There are fuck tons of ethnic south asians - especially in english-speaking, wealthy, first-world, sport powerhouse countries: UK, USA, Canada - where are the desi brit/murican/canadians athletes ? (OTOH there has been several desi public servants in UK)
这个帖子每4年就出现一次。
你好像做了研究功课。现在请仔细思考并解释原因:
全世界有很多南亚族裔——尤其是在说英语，富裕，第一世界，体育强国的国家：英国、美国、加拿大——但英国、美国、加拿大有多少印度裔的运动员？（相比之下，英国倒是有不少印度裔的公务员）。
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Its cultural af.
I see your point but China wouldnt be leading medalist country with that logic
这就是文化问题了，
我明白你的观点，但按照这个逻辑，中国就不可能在奖牌榜上领先了。
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The training programs and facilities we have are not as good as they are in USA or China, specially at school level. Foreign athletes get excellent level of training from 10-12 years old.
There is some level of genetic factor that affects us because physically Indian (asians) are not as big or tall compared to African or American athletes. So in sports like running or swimming they have a natural advantage.
我们的培训项目和设施不如美国或中国好，特别是在学校层面。外国运动员从10-12岁开始就获得了优秀的训练水平。
有某种程度的遗传因素影响着我们，因为印度人(亚洲人)的体格不如非洲或美国运动员高大。所以在像跑步或游泳这样的运动中，他们有天生的优势。
You are just so wrong. You don't have to comment about something you don't have expertise in.
你大错特错了。你不必对你不擅长的事情发表评论。
Yeah because rest of the comments here are from national level team coaches.
是啊是啊，因为这里其他发评论的人都是国家级队伍的教练，
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Entertainment brings in sponsors and revenue. Athletic scholarships aren't solely based on physical feats but they do encourage people to develop themselves in more ways.
娱乐带来赞助商和收入。体育奖学金并不仅仅基于体能成绩，而是鼓励人们在更多方面发展自己。
Sure, but the sponsors and revenue are all eventually tied to the fact that there's a viewing audience, which is why I think that this entire process doesn't end up creating anything tangible for society. It most certainly adds to the GDP, because a lot of money exchanges hands, but it doesn't create value in society.
It does encourage people to develop themselves, but quite honestly that's a very small part of why the industry exists. The industry exists because people want to watch sports for entertainment.
当然，但赞助商和收入最终都与要有观众观看这一事实联系在一起，这就是为什么我认为整个过程最终不会为社会创造任何有形的东西。它肯定会增加GDP，因为很多钱会转手，但它不会在社会上创造价值。
这确实鼓励人们自我发展，但说实话，这只是游戏产业存在的一小部分原因。这个行业的存在是因为人们想要观看体育娱乐。
Many people also ignore other sports and play cricket only, there's no cricket in Olympics
很多人也忽视了其他运动，只玩板球，但奥运会没有板球。
Because there is zero support for them. That's it, that's the whole answer. Just look at what life after the olympics looks like for them. Why anyone would put themselves through so much, with so little support from their country, only to be discarded later, is beyond me.
因为没有人支持他们。就是这样，这就是全部答案。只要看看他们在奥运会后的生活是什么样子就知道了。
为什么有人会在国家支持如此少的情况下，让自己经历这么多苦难，最后却被抛弃，这让我无法理解。
It somewhat also depends upon people's choice. A majority of Indian population is interested on Cricket and invest a huge amount of money on it, so as a result the govt. agencies spend more on Cricket and the players and a very less amount on other sports. You can see the difference between IPL and ISL(football) audience.
这在某种程度上也取决于人们的选择。大多数印度人都对板球感兴趣，并在上面投资了大量资金，因此政府机构在板球和球员上花的钱更多，在其他体育项目上花的钱比较。我们可以看到IPL和ISL(足球)观众之间的差距。
V r besht in olypics. All is conspiracy
你们在奥运会是最好的，一切都是阴谋。
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Who created Olympics ? Ancient Greeks
What became of ancient Greeks ? Roman empire
Where is Roman empire ? Italy
What's in Italy ? Vatican
Thus Olympics is western propogand spread by Vatican church to emasculate our STRONG GREATEST NATION ON EARTH AND STRONG ONE ABOVE ALL LEADER .
All these facts are verifiable in book written by veteran historian Dr. B.S galgucche. Book is sold at thapade bookstore near chiplun bus station galli 6 behind water tank near fertility clinic for 20 rupees
谁创造了奥运会?古希腊人。
古希腊人后来怎么样了?罗马帝国。
罗马帝国在哪里?意大利。
意大利有什么?梵蒂冈。
因此，奥运会是梵蒂冈教会传播的西方宣传，目的是阉割我们这个全世界最强大的国家和最强大的国家领袖。
这些事实都在资深历史学家b.s. galgucche博士所著的书中得到证实。这本书在chiplun汽车站附近的thapade书店出售，该书店位于不孕不育诊所附近的水塔后面，售价20卢比。
I get where you are coming from, but having a good sport infrastructure reach such a large portion of the country is a luxury. Even though it would he incredible to see India win medals in the Olympics, there are greater problems we need to solve.
And getting into sports is extremely risky. You need to be THE best at sports to make a living out of them. There could be more benifits for athletes like scholarships, but due to extreme unhealthy competition in education, I don't think those benifits are coming any soon. Indians have to give, arguable the world's toughest exam (JEE) to get into a college that is ranked 117 or sometimes even as low as 300. I don't see this changing any time soon. Optimistically, in 50 years or so, we could be competing with USA and China in the Olympics.
我理解你的观点，但想让这个国家的大部分地区都有良好的体育基础设施是一种奢侈。尽管看到印度在奥运会上赢得奖牌令人难以置信，但我们还有更大的问题需要解决。
而且从事体育运动有很大的风险。你需要成为最擅长运动项目的人，才能靠运动谋生。运动员可以获得更多的好处，比如奖学金，但由于教育领域的极端不健康竞争，我认为这些好处不会很快到来。
印度人必须参加世界上最难的考试，才能进入一所排名117，有时甚至低至300的大学。我认为这种情况短期内不会改变。乐观地说，在50年左右的时间里，我们才可以在奥运会上与美国和中国竞争。
Many people won't agree or downvote me. But here is my reasoning :-
Indians are malnourished. More than 50% of them. This is mainly because we rely on vegetarian diet. With that, it will cost a lot of money to eat protein (nuts, etc). While people from every other country eat meat as main part of their diet. Average Indian is physically weaker, so they lose.
There are also other reasons such as politics, infrastructure etc. But countries with even poorer infrastructure will be above us on the medal tally.
很多人会不会同意或反对我。但我的理由是:
印度人营养不良。超过50%。这主要是因为我们依赖素食。这样的话，吃蛋白质(坚果等)会花很多钱。而其他国家的人则把肉食作为他们饮食的主要部分。普通印度人身体更弱，所以他们输了。
还有其他原因，比如政治、基础设施等。但有些基础设施更差的国家在奖牌榜上也将超过我们。
Lack of good training/coaching infrastructure and corrupted sextion system.
缺乏良好的培训/教练基础设施和腐败的选拔系统。
Protein is potential, Indian being a vegetarian nation doesn't get enough of it. Protein is important for muscular development, and good muscle development is important for sports.
This is just food. And many other factors too. Another main thing is money.
We are so good at cricket, but you don't have to be all that strong to play cricket.
蛋白质就是潜力，印度是一个素食国家，没有足够的蛋白质。蛋白质对肌肉发育很重要，良好的肌肉发育对运动也很重要。
这只是食物问题。还有许多其他因素。另一个主要问题是钱。
我们板球打得很好，但不用那么强壮就可以打板球。
It's the mentality. They give us 1 sports period(sometimes that too gets stolen by some teachers who wanna teach their subject)per week, and then expect us to win dozens of gold medals at the Olympics.
是心态问题。他们每周给我们安排1节体育课(有时也被一些想教自己科目的老师偷走了)，然后期望我们在奥运会上赢得几十块金牌。
if any of the middle class Indian kids tell to their parents that they are doing Skateboarding. They would just simply not accept.
We want to be different, highlight our individuality, not part of the crowd but with parental/family approval. You can't have the cake and eat it too. Just doesn't work like that.
Also, let's not compare ourselves with developed countries. The only country that can make sense to the scale and size and to a major extent, the culture of our population is either China or possibly Indonesia.
China is an impressive example with its limited resources that started climbing up in the medial tally a few decades ago when it did have a similar amount of resources as India.
Bitching and moaning about Indian culture is something we have done with every major sporting event and definitely at every Olympics. It gets us nowhere and neither does it have absolutely any effect on who we vote for.
Unless and until we incentivise the system with massive Govt sports grants and funds, spend money on infrastructure or at least make it accessible to the general public, subsidise food and resources for anyone with any promise, push it even more in the armed forces among a thousand other lessons which can be learned from nations like China/Russia/Australia etc, only than there will be an improvement.
如果任何一个印度中产阶级的孩子告诉他们的父母他们在玩滑板。那些父母完全不接受。
我们想要与众不同，突出自己的个性，不要泯然于众人，但是为了父母/家人的认可，鱼与熊掌不可兼得。并不是这样的。
同样，我们也不要和发达国家比较。对于我们印度来说，唯一一个在人口文化的规模上有比较意义的国家，在很大程度上是中国，或在是印度尼西亚（可能）。
我们在每一场重大体育赛事和每一届奥运会都会做的事情，就是对印度文化发牢骚和抱怨。但这对我们没有任何帮助，也绝对不会影响我们投票给谁。
除非，除非我们用大规模的政府体育拨款和基金来激励这个系统，把钱花在基础设施上，或者至少让公众可以使用，为任何有企图的人提供食品和资源补贴，从中国、俄罗斯、澳大利亚等国家那里可以学到上千条教训，只有这样才会有进步。
Any indian athlete who gets a medal at Olympics or any other world event are succeeding in spite of indian system and not because of it. Truly sad.
任何在奥运会或其他世界赛事上获得奖牌的印度运动员，都是顶着印度体制的阻力取得成功的，而不是因为印度体制才成功的。
真让人悲伤。
Case in point, Abhinav Bindra. Only individual Gold for india in a long time had money to train in Germany with world class coaches.
Abhinav Bindra就是一个很好的例子。只有为印度获得了个人金牌很长时间以后，她才有钱在德国和世界级教练一起训练。