假如你不能搬家，你会愿意在第三世界国家成为富人，还是愿意在美国当穷人?（下）
Would you rather be rich in a third world country or poor in America assuming you can''t move?
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网友：选择在第三世界国家富有,这其实没法比。在美国当穷人比在孟加拉国当穷人好，但也还是不容易。贫穷，甚至痛苦都围绕在你的周围，但如果你不想看，你就不需要看。你可以生活在和自己同社会阶层的人光顾的餐馆以及娱乐场所，你能见到的穷人就只有你的女佣和园丁，你可以为自己建造一座高墙环绕的宫殿，让窥视者望而却步，并坐在豪华轿车上时忽略到街上的乞丐......
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Would you rather be rich in a third world country or poor in America assuming you can't move?
假如你不能搬家，你会愿意在第三世界国家成为富人，还是愿意在美国当穷人?
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Rich in a third world country. This is not even close.
Being poor in the US is better than being poor in Bangladesh, but it’s still no walk in the park.
There is poverty and even misery all around you, but you don’t have to look at it if you don’t want to. You can live your life secluded in the restaurants and places of entertainment visited by people in your own social class. The only poor people you will see are your maids and your gardener. You can build yourself a palace surrounded by high walls that will keep prying eyes at bay and ignore the rare mendicants you see in the streets from the vantage point of your luxury car.
My ambition is the kind that makes me want to achieve financial independence so that I will not have to be bossed around by anyone. I don’t enjoy bossing people around at all. I am almost apologetic when asking the hospital staff to do things for me. Living in a 3rd world country, even as a rich man, is not my dream. But there is no denying that it would be vastly preferable to being poor in the US.
选择在第三世界国家富有,这其实没法比。
在美国当穷人比在孟加拉国当穷人好，但也还是不容易。
贫穷，甚至痛苦都围绕在你的周围，但如果你不想看，你就不需要看。你可以生活在和自己同社会阶层的人光顾的餐馆以及娱乐场所，你能见到的穷人就只有你的女佣和园丁，你可以为自己建造一座高墙环绕的宫殿，让窥视者望而却步，并坐在豪华轿车上时忽略到街上的乞丐。
我的抱负是实现经济独立，这样我就不会为任何人所左右。我一点也不喜欢指挥别人。当我让医院的工作人员为我做事时，我都会感到很抱歉。在第三世界国家生活，即便是作为富人，也不是我所想的。但不可否认的是，在美国当穷人会（比在穷国当穷人）要好过得多。
I live in Malaysia which, although not exactly a Third World Country, is not exactly an advanced economy like America, Great Britain, even Singapore. I would say that Malaysia is in between the two. So my current state, I believe, is relevant to the question at hand.
I’ve gone through the stats about poverty in the United States and it amazes me that the poverty line for a single person in the 48 contiguous states is around $12,140 according the United States Department of Health & Human Services. That was my annual salary in 2015 - 2016 (with 5-6 years experience) , and I was only slightly below the Malaysian median national household income. I wasn’t living in poverty in the least - even had enough money to actually go on holiday to America! I have a nice car I bought brand new, was able to use an iPhone I bought outright rather than through a telco contract, etc. etc. My living standards was fine.
So to sum up, I rather be rich in a Third World Country, rather than be poor in America. When you’re rich in a Third World Country, you can easily buy what you need by importing it, or in the case of healthcare & education, by going overseas to get the needed medical attention or education. How can you do that if you’re poor in America?
Believe it or not, this is something many of my countrymen don’t realize. They think by emigrating to the US, or the UK, or Australia, their lives would be much more luxurious - but many times, they’re not. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
我住在马来西亚，尽管它不完全是第三世界国家，但也不是像美国，英国，甚至新加坡这样的发达经济体。我认为马来西亚介于两者之间。因此，我认为我目前的状况与这个问题有关。
我查看了美国的贫困统计数据，根据美国卫生与公共服务部的数据，美国48个相邻州的人均贫困线约为12140美元，这让我感到很惊讶。这是我2015-2016年的年薪（已有5-6年的工作经验），仅略低于马来西亚国民家庭收入的中位数。我一点也不贫穷，甚至能有足够的钱去美国度假！我有一辆好车，买的全新的，我可以直接购买使用iPhone手机，而不是通过电信合同，等等。我的生活水平其实还不错。
总而言之，我宁愿在第三世界国家富有，也不愿在美国贫穷。当你在第三世界国家富有时，你可以很容易地通过进口方式购买你需要的东西，在医疗保健和教育方面，也可以通过出国获得所需的医疗照顾或教育。如果你在美国很穷，那你怎么能这么做？
信不信由你，这是我许多同胞都没有意识到的事情。他们都认为，移民到美国，英国或澳大利亚后，他们的生活会变得更加奢华，但很多时候并非如此，这山望着那山高罢了。
My dad is Viet, and his family went from having a maid to living in really difficult financial circumstances in the US (like, going hungry, didn’t have enough clothes etc.) They had to move since the Vietnam War and they were definitely going to get killed like my great grandpa was (they killed intellectuals first).
I would be sextive about where I’d be moving, but there are cities in developing countries that are well developed. It’s not like people are living in the mountains and hauling up water to their houses…that’s fairly rare, even today.
For example, in Vietnam in the 50s and 60s, North Vietnam was all the “mountain people”. They were very poor laborers who very well could’ve lived in villages. My dad and his family lived in South Vietnam in Saigon (now Ho Chi Min City rolleyes) where his house had 3 stories, plumbing, all that…his dad had a study and library…and they had a maid. And a nanny for when their 3 kids were growing up.
我父亲是越共，他的家庭从有一个女佣到经济非常困难的生活在美国(比如，挨饿，没有足够的衣服等)。自越南战争以来，他们不得不搬家，否则他们就会像我曾祖父一样被杀掉（他们会首先杀知识分子）。
对于要去的地方，我一定会有所选择，发展中国家的一些城市其实也是非常发达的。并不是说人们就生活在山里，把水运到家里……这种情况还是相当罕见的，尤其是在今天。
例如，在五六十年代的越南，北越都是“山民”。他们都是十分贫穷的劳动者，本来是住在村子里的。我的父亲和他的家人住在越南南部的西贡（现在是胡志明市），那里的房子有3层楼高，所有的水暖设施这些都有，他的父亲还有书房和图书馆，他们有一个女仆，以及三个孩子成长时的保姆。
Before answering this question it is good to set a few parameters. First there’s a vast disparity between Third World countries, from Chad to Malaysia. Second, let’ settle on a fixed amount of annual income in each country (whether salary or through investments) of $30,000 per year ($2,500 per month). One may argue that $30k per month is not poor in the U.S. but it is certainly lower middle class. Third, my background is as a Kenyan American who has lived in the US for 20 years and has traveled to over a dozen African countries, so I am in a position to comment only on Third World African countries. Fourth, there’s a major difference in this question whether you are single or you are married and have a family. Being single the advantages of living wealthy in a Third World are not as pronounced but for a family it absolutely is.
The obvious advantages in merely living in the US are that things generally work and there’s rule of law. In Africa, it depends what country you are in. Botswana and Rwanda are well countries with generally good rule of law (although Rwanda may be a bit wanting in the area of civil liberties). Another advantage in the US is that you can pretty much buy anything although with a salary of $30k there may be limitations.
在回答这个问题之前，最好先设置几个参数。第一，从乍得到马来西亚，第三世界国家之间也存在着巨大的差距。第二，让我们以每个国家每年$ 30,000（每月$ 2,500）的固定年收入（无论是工资收入还是投资收入）为基础。有人可能会说，每月3万美元在美国并不算贫穷，但肯定是中下阶层。第三，我的背景是肯尼亚裔美国人，在美国生活了20年，去过十几个非洲国家，所以我也只能评论第三世界的非洲国家。第四，这个问题主要区别在于你是单身还是已婚并有家庭。单身人士在第三世界国家生活富裕的优势并不明显，但对一个家庭来说就不太好。
在美国生活的明显好处是，一切事情都是正常运作的，并且有法可依。在非洲，这就要取决于你所在的国家或地区。像博茨瓦纳和卢旺达就是法治良好的国家（不过卢旺达在公民自由方面可能会有所欠缺）。在美国的另一个优势是，你几乎可以买到任何东西，尽管3万美元的薪水可能会有所限制。
Cost of living in Third World countries are generally lower (provided you don’t chose to live like an expat). Hence, you’ll have way more disposable income with your $30k/year than in the US. There a few exceptions though like Angola that are extremely expensive, however.
Depending on the country, the vacation laws are much more liberal than in the U.S. At the $30k level, you would be lucky to have more than 10 days vacation in the U.S. In most African countries, the law doesn’t allow less than 20 days. So if you in a Third World country you would have more disposable income and more leisure to enjoy it.
Basically, countries like Botswana, South Africa, Kenya, Ghana, Cote d’Ivoire, Senegal, Malaysia, Indonesia, India, etc. are very nice to lice in if you have some money. If the Third World country is politically stable and generally well run then it is a no brainer: living in such countries would be far better experience than being poor in the U.S. and as some have mentioned it is not even close. However, if it is countries like Haiti, Niger, Chad, Yemen, North Korea, etc. I would say the U.S.
Now if you change the parameters to having $300,000/year in a Third World country vs. $30,000/year in the U.S. then there's no debate. Third World country all the way because you could visit the U.S. any time.
P. S. I am a U.S. living in Kenya and my quality of life is superior than what I could enjoy in the U.S. for my family of 5. I shudder to think if moving back to the U.S. with my young children. However, once they are teenagers, moving back to the U.S. would look to be an attractive proposition.
在第三世界国家，由于工资低，金钱可以为你赢得更多时间。如果你愿意的话，年薪3万美元，你可以负担起一个住家保姆和一个司机。如果你是单身，这些问题可能与你无关，但是如果你有家人，这是一个主要考虑的因素。这意味着父母双方都可以工作，同时，他们的孩子依然可以受到细心的照顾。
第三世界国家的生活成本通常较低(前提是你没有选择像西方人一样生活)。因此，你每年3万美元的可支配收入会比在美国多很多。不过，也有一些例外，比如安哥拉，那里的物价就非常昂贵。
由于国家的不同，休假方面的法律也比美国宽松得多。在3万美元的水平之上，你在美国能有10天以上的假期就已经很幸运了。而在大多数非洲国家，法律不允许少于20天的假期。所以，如果你在第三世界国家，你会有更多的可支配收入和更多的闲暇时间来享受。
基本上，如果你有钱的话，博茨瓦纳、南非、肯尼亚、加纳、科特迪瓦、塞内加尔、马来西亚、印度尼西亚、印度等国家都是很好的旅游目的地。如果第三世界国家政治稳定，总体运行良好，那就不需要动脑筋了:生活在这些国家要比在美国贫穷好得多，就像一些人提到的那样，甚至还差得远呢。当然，如果是像海地、尼日尔、乍得、也门、朝鲜等国家。那我会选美国。
现在如果你把参数改成30万美元/年在第三世界国家和3万美元/年在美国，那就没有争议了。因为你随时都可以去美国。
附注:我是一个住在肯尼亚的美国人，我的生活质量比我一家5口在美国的生活质量要好。我不禁思索是否要带着年幼的孩子搬回美国。然而，如果他们是青少年，搬回美国将是一个很有有吸引力的提议。
As most answers say “it’s better to be rich in 3rd world country than poor in US”.
If you adjust the question to “Would you rather be rich in a third world country or poor in a Western social welfare nation, assuming you can't move?” it becomes more interesting.
Being poor in e.g. Norway is quite decent. You can count on housing, food and medical care if needed. Even a hamburger job pays enough to live on a 40h work week and afford to travel abroad for 4 weeks a year on you vacation (oops does that count as move?).
Though, the standard of living by far do not match the upper class in 3rd world and you are on the lower end of the local social stairway.
On the other hand You live in a safe country, hardy any traffic accidents, robberies, murders, revolutions or hurricanes to worry about.
A rather tough choice for most, especially if you have a conscience.
就像大多数人回答说的那样，“在第三世界国家富裕总比在美国贫穷好”。
如果你把问题改成“假如你不能搬家，你愿意在第三世界国家富裕还是愿意在西方福利国家贫穷?”“这就变得更有趣了。
在挪威这样的贫穷国家生活是相当体面的。如果有需要，你可以依靠住房、食物和医疗补助。即使是一份汉堡式的工作，其每周工作40个小时的收入也足以支撑生活，并负担得起每年出国度假4周的费用(哎呀，这算不算搬家?)
尽管如此，生活水平远不如第三世界的上层阶级，你任然处于当地社会阶梯的低层。
另一方面来说，你生活在一个安全的国家，几乎不必担心任何交通事故，抢劫，谋杀，革命或飓风。
对于大多数人而言，这是一个相当艰难的选择，尤其是你有良心的话。
I’ll play Devil’s Advocate here. The question stated you couldn’t move. It didn’t say you had to stay poor. If I couldn’t take advantage of American income mobility then the question is just as much of a no-brainer as everyone else says.
Notice the question said ‘poor’, not ‘homeless’. If I’m poor, then at least I have my person, a place to live, and the ability to make and execute a plan. I’ve been poor before. It sucked, so I worked hard until it didn’t suck so much
If I can take advantage of American economic mobility, then that means realistically speaking, it’s a choice between being rich in a third-world country and being middle class in America. And if I can’t, then am I really living in America?
And so that’s actually a choice I’ve seen people make. Well-off families send their kids off to America to go to school all the time and in general, once here, those kids don’t want to move back home.
If I had to put a finger on why, I would have to say it’s rigid, traditional culture. Moving to the US feels like a breath of fresh air from all that oppressiveness, even though they can no longer take advantage of family wealth, even though they will just be normal middle class Americans their whole lives. That tradeoff appears to be worth it, even if the tradeoff between being rich there and poor here isn’t. .
As an aside, I get a little eye-rolly whenever people in America with a dead horse they want to beat start talking about the poor. It seems like whenever they hear this phrase they get this picture in their mind of someone who has been rendered totally and completely helpless by “the system.” The poster child for frustrated liberalism. And when I point out that there are different gradations to being poor, that being poor in America is not about a dollar figure in your bank account, they finger me for an evil conservative and tell me I’m not talking about the “real poor.”
So let me say that the only thing truly required of anyone who wants to take advantage of America’s limited economic mobility is to make and follow through on a plan, and to get yourself back up and do it again, if and when that plan fails. You’d be absolutely amazed at the number of people here who can’t do that. I’ve seen many many people in life who were hard up for awhile and then pulled themselves out of it. I’ve also seen many people who just couldn’t do it no matter what.
This fact, that you can pull yourself out of poverty by your own bootstraps, should be a no-brainer, but apparently it clashes hard with people’s political beliefs. Even when they’re doing it, or they’ve done it. No they were lucky, or privileged or whatever.
我来唱反调。问题是你不能搬家。但这并不是说你必须保持贫穷。如果我不能利用美国的收入流动性，那么这个问题就像其他人说的那样，是一个显而易见的问题。
请注意，问题是“贫穷”，而不是“无家可归”。如果我很穷，那么至少我还有一个可以居住的地方以及制定和执行计划的能力。我以前很穷，过得很不好，所以我努力工作直到好起来。
如果我可以利用美国的经济流动性，那么从现实的角度讲，这是在第三世界国家富裕和在美国成为中产阶级之间做出选择。如果我不能，那我真的要选择美国吗？
我看到很多人做出这样的选择。富裕的家庭总是把孩子送到美国去上学，一般来说，一旦到了美国，这些孩子就不会想回家了。
如果非要我说原因的话，我会说这是僵化的传统文化。搬到美国，感觉就像从压迫中呼吸到了新鲜空气，尽管他们再也不能利用家里的财富，尽管他们一生都只是普通的美国中产阶级。这种权衡似乎是值得的，即使那里的富人和穷人之间的权衡是不值得的。
说句题外话，每当美国人想要死马当活马医的时候，开始谈论穷人的时候，我都会有点想翻白眼。似乎每当听到这句话，他们脑海中就会浮现出这样一幅画面:一个被“体制”弄得完全无助的人，一个失意的自由主义的典型代表。当我指出贫穷有不同的等级，在美国贫穷并不仅仅是你银行账户里的钱时，他们认为我是邪恶的保守主义者，并告诉我我说的不是“真正的穷人”。
因此，我要说的是，对于任何想利用美国有限的经济流动性的人来说，唯一真正需要做的就是制定并贯彻执行一个计划，如果这个计划失败了，就让自己振作起来，再做一次。你一定会惊讶于这里有多少人做不到。我看到生活中许多人苦苦挣扎了一段时间，然后又从中摆脱出来。我也看到很多人无论如何都做不到。
你可以通过自己的努力摆脱贫困，这是显而易见的事实，但显然它与人们的政治信仰有很大冲突。即使他们正在做，或者已经做了。或者他们很幸运，或者有特权，或者别的什么。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I traveled to a few countries on my life and some of them were poor countries, third world countries. There were a couple of countries that I really disliked. I will not name them out of respect to people from there, but I disliked these places enough that I would not want to go back there even as tourists.
In both of these occasions I was staying in nice “rich” places and even though I went to the streets to experience the local culture and history, I lived during those weeks like a rich Westener. Still, despite the high standard of living, I left uninspired and disappointed.
At the same time, I like America, the good ol’ USA. And after I immigrated here for a few years I lived like a poor person. I made about 1000–1100 dollars a month and made lots of sacrifices to save at least half of it. Despite living like that, within these life conditions of almost poverty, I loved it and I knew that through hard work and sacrifice I could get ahead.
我一生中曾去过几个国家，其中一些是贫穷第三世界国家。有几个国家我真的不喜欢。出于对那里人的尊重，我不会说出它们的名字，但我非常不喜欢这些地方，即使是作为游客，我也不想再回到那里。
在两种情况下，我都住在“富裕”的好地方，尽管我走上街头去体验当地的文化和历史，但在那几周，我仍像个富裕的西方人一样生活。然而，尽管生活水平很高，我离开时却毫无感觉，并感到失望。
同时，我喜欢美国，伟大的美国。在我移民到这里后的几年里，我过得像个穷人。我每个月赚了1000-1100美元，并且做出了很多牺牲来节省至少一半的钱。尽管生活如此，在这种几乎贫穷的生活条件下，我还是喜欢它，并且我知道通过努力工作和牺牲可以取得成功。
· You can express yourself the way you want, you can choose your religion, you can move to the mountains, or NYC or the desert in Nevada, or a Florida beach.
· You can choose a career and eventually, after studying or getting some experience in it by climbing the ladder, you can be somebody in it.
· You can be gay or straight…
You can be who you want to be,, where you want to be and so on.
我也喜欢这里的自由：
你可以以你想要的方式表达你自己，你可以选择你的宗教，你可以搬到山区，或纽约，或内华达州的沙漠，或佛罗里达的海滩。
你可以选择一个职业，最终，在学习不断获得一些经验后，你可以成为其中的一员。
你可以是同性恋或异性恋，你可以成为你想成为的人，去你想去的地方等等。
I could not live rich there knowing that across the street from me a family is suffering because they want to be somebody they cannot be.
在一些第三世界国家，人们受到了压迫，尤其是某些类型或者某些社会阶层。
如果我知道街对面有一家人因为想成为不可能成为的人而受苦，我是不会在那里过富裕生活的。
Rich in a third world country. This isn’t the 1950s or 1990s. This is 2019 and the poorest of poor countries have access to luxuries that frankly didn’t exist prior. Plus you have to define rich if you’re talking what we consider rich in America than absolutely. Money goes extremely far in a 3rd world nation. You can have a private military just about, have the most gorgeous women (coming from a man’s perspective here), still get the exact same luxuries a rich American can (more expensive though), and most of all once you’re rich in a 3rd world nation your money multiplies. The term rich gets richer is especially true in those nations. Now if it becomes war torn and that is possible your life of bliss would end and your money would mean nothing. It is certainly possible for a third world nation to erupt into war. Yet should that war never come to pass you will live a life of bliss. I can’t believe that’s really a question.
选择在第三世界国家富有。这不是20世纪50年代或90年代，而是2019年，贫穷国家中最贫穷的人也可以享受到以前没有的奢侈品。另外，如果你说的是我们认为的美国富人，而不是绝对的富人，那么你必须给富人下个定义。在一个第三世界国家，钱的作用非常大。你可以拥有一支私人军队，拥有最漂亮的女人(从一个男人的角度来看)，可以得到和美国富人一样的奢侈品(尽管更贵)，最重要的是，一旦你在第三世界国家富有，你的钱会倍增。富人更富这个词在这些国家尤其如此。现在，如果它被战争破坏，你的幸福生活可能会结束，你的钱将毫无意义。第三世界国家爆发战争当然是可能的。然而，如果那场战争永远不发生，你将一直过着幸福的生活。我不敢相信这真的是个问题。
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I am comfortably off in South Africa and prefer it that way. I have been to the United States and I thought was very nice. However, I prefer South Africa, even if I could have the equivalent wealth in the United States. I shall be 85 in February. I have four jobs and there is demand for my services. I get treated with respect. In my native country the UK you are written off at 60 and I reckon the United States would be the same. From what I have seen on the media being poor in the United States appears to be about the same as it is in South Africa. The United States law enforcement appears to be more aggressive and racially inclined.
我在南非过得很舒服，我更喜欢这样的生活。我去过美国，我觉得那里很好。然而，我更喜欢南非，即使我可以在美国拥有同样的财富。到二月份我就85岁了。我有四份工作，都需要我提供服务。我得到了（别人的）尊重。在我的祖国英国，你60岁就要退休了，我认为美国也会是一样。从我在媒体上了解到的情况来看，美国的穷人似乎和南非的穷人差不多。美国的执法部门似乎也更激进，更有种族倾向。