欧洲体罚未成年人的合法性分布图
Legality of corporal punishment of minors in Europe
译文简介
绿色：在家庭和学校都禁止对未成年人体罚
正文翻译
Legality of corporal punishment of minors in Europe
欧洲体罚未成年人的合法性分布图
绿色：在家庭和学校都禁止对未成年人体罚
黄色：只禁止在学校对未成年人进行体罚
红色：在家庭和学校都不禁止对未成年人的体罚
欧洲体罚未成年人的合法性分布图
绿色：在家庭和学校都禁止对未成年人体罚
黄色：只禁止在学校对未成年人进行体罚
红色：在家庭和学校都不禁止对未成年人的体罚
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Italy / UK（意大利/英国）
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如果意大利是绿色的，那监狱里已经关满了（容嬷嬷式的）老奶奶
And a whole country would starve
然后整个国家都会饿死
Lombardy（伦巴第）
并且物证室里塞满了拖鞋
Denmark（丹麦）
我记得有一个意大利人在瑞典被捕，因为他多次体罚他12岁的儿子。这在这里和在意大利都成了新闻，因为在意大利这是很正常的，他们无法理解北方这里的愤怒。
Italy（意大利）
我不知道是否是很久以前的事情，但我记得我听到过这个，并且希望我们这里能和你们一样。
Turkey（土耳其）
我通过EVS认识了很多意大利人，我惊讶地发现他们都被父母打过（有一个是用皮带打的），他们甚至觉得这很正常，说自己的行为很不好，该打。我当时非常惊讶。(而我的另一个葡萄牙朋友说，如果他以后的孩子在公共场合表现得非常骄纵，他会轻轻地打他的孩子，虽然我不知道他当了爸爸后是否真的会这么做)
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I feel the same about whatever buttsmacks I got as a small child, or the occasional belt as a teenager. I did deserve it and sometimes reason and understanding had no effect, but fear kept me from repeating my mistake.
Dad once told if he'd ever catch me with drugs, he'd break my legs and leave me on the floor until they're healed. I didn't try drugs until I was 25 and I'm grateful for that. I would have definitely tried it at a less responsible and more influenceable age if I didn't have the fear of dad.
Today's progressivism has gone too far and only looks at the negative consequences of old habits, never the positive.
和我对小时候被打屁屁，或者少年时偶尔被皮带抽时的想法是一样的。我的确是活该，有时候和我讲道理和试图让我理解也没有效果，但恐惧会让我不敢重蹈覆辙。
爸爸曾经说过，如果有一天他抓到我吸毒，他就会打断我的腿，让我躺在地上，直到腿好了为止。我直到25岁才尝试毒品，我很感激。如果我没有对爸爸的恐惧，我一定会在责任心不强、特别容易被影响的年纪就去尝试了。
今天的进步主义已经走得太远了，只能看到旧习惯的负面后果，从来不看正面效果。（注：这哥们被踩得很惨，也算代表了欧洲网友的态度）
Turkey
I have never been beaten, I'm a great child, tried drugs when I was 23 once and didn't do again. They raised me with love and respect and I don't do things they wouldnt approve of only because I love them and I understand that those things are bad for me. Not out of fear. I even convinced my dad to quit smoking. (And many other friends) Having someone do something out of fear is a bad strategy. I know lots of people who did all kinds of shit after moving out and becoming economically independent, when the fear was gone. "I would have definitely tried it" that's what they want you to believe in order to justify their abusive behavior. If they raised you as a rational person, who loves their parents and would never do something that would hurt them, then no you would definitely not try it.
As a teacher I can see clearly the students of teachers who use the fear method and my students, the fearful ones do the homework because they are afraid of the teacher, they hate the lesson and the teacher, and it takes lots of effort to make them like the lesson again. But my students are motivated because I make them feel respected and loved, instead of making them do their duties out of fear I explain them why they should do those things and why they should do them for their own good. Believe it or not, they do much better when it's their own choice.
我从来没有被打过，我是个好孩子，23岁的时候尝试过一次毒品，后来就没有再试过。他们用爱和尊重养育了我，我不做他们不会同意的事情，只因为我爱他们，我明白那些事情对我不好。不是因为害怕。我甚至说服了我爸爸戒烟。(还有很多其他朋友)让别人因为恐惧而做一些事情是一个糟糕的策略。我知道很多人在搬出父母家，经济独立后，当恐惧消失，他们就做了各种各样乱七八糟的事情。"我知道这些对你是不好的"这是他们希望你相信的，以便为他们的虐待行为辩护。如果他们把你培养成一个理性的、爱自己的父母、绝对不会做出伤害父母的事情的人，那么不，有些事情你肯定不会去尝试。
作为老师，我可以清楚的看到使用恐惧法的老师的学生和我的学生的区别，恐惧的学生做作业是因为害怕老师，他们讨厌这门课，讨厌老师，要想让他们重新喜欢上这门课，需要付出很多努力。但我的学生之所以有积极性，是因为我让他们感受到了尊重和爱，我不是让他们因为害怕而做作业，而是向他们解释为什么要做这些事情，为什么要为他们好。不管你信不信，当这是他们自己的选择时，他们会做得更好。
Having someone do something out of fear is a bad strategy. I know lots of people who did all kinds of shit after moving out and becoming economically independent, when the fear was gone.
Only if it is fear without respect, it wouldn't work without it for reasons you said. I always respected dad and knew he wanted what's best for us, but I had a depressed adolescence and was very susceptible to mistakes or going off the rails. I didn't, but I easily could have, I know that. Not every child, teen or adolescent is the same.
"I would have definitely tried if" that's what they want you to believe in order to justify their abusive behavior. If they raised you as a rational person, who loves their parents and would never do something that would hurt them, then no you would definitely not try it.
They had no abusive behavior and frankly it's somewhat offensive and disrepectful to me you catalogue it as that. And if mistakes were made, mainly due to ignorance about high functioning autism in the 90s, it's not his fault as his intentions were always just.
But looking at intention and not immediately labelling is not popular among those who grew up after me it seems.
“让某人出于恐惧而做某事是一种糟糕的策略。我认识很多人，当恐惧消失的时候，他们在搬出去和经济独立后做了各种各样乱七八糟的事情。”
这是因为只有恐惧而没有尊重，没有尊重也是不行的，原因如你所说。我一直很尊重爸爸，也知道他想为我们着想，但我的青春期很压抑，本来很容易犯错或钻牛角尖。但我却没有，虽然我知道我其实很容易就走岔路。不是每个孩子、青少年都是一样的。
“"我知道这些对你是不好的"这是他们希望你相信的，以便为他们的虐待行为辩护。如果他们把你培养成一个理性的、爱自己的父母、绝对不会做出伤害父母的事情的人，那么不，有些事情你肯定不会去尝试。”
他们没有虐待行为，坦率地说，你把它归类这样，对我来说有些冒犯和不尊重。即使他犯了错误，这也主要是因为90年代对“高功能自闭症”尚且很无知，那不是他的错，因为他的本意一直是公正的。
但看重意图而不是立即对某种行为贴标签，在我之后成长的人中似乎并不流行。
Turkey
You said "occasional belt" that is abuse my friend. And it's even worse if you have high functioning autism. I never said their intentions were bad, but I don't care about intentions if they end up in violent behavior. Psychology has proven time and time again that punishment isn't a good parenting (or educational) strategy for the long term well-being of the person. I know that it's hard for you to except your parents harmed you, but I never said it was their intention. Nobody is perfect, I'm sure they didn't know any better.
你说的"偶尔用皮带抽"那就是虐待，我的朋友。如果你有高功能自闭症，那就更糟糕了。我从来没有说过他们的意图是坏的，但如果他们最终导致暴力行为，我并不关心他的意图。心理学已经一次又一次地证明，惩罚并不是一个好的育儿（或教育）策略，对人的长期福祉不利。我知道你很难接受你的父母伤害了你，但我从来没有说过这是他们的意图。没有人是完美的，我相信他们只是不知道有更好的手段。
Occassional as in twice or thrice. When I really deserved it.
I really don't feel harmed by them. I was harmed by my peers and especially minority peers, but not by my parents. Their punishing was way less painful and more educational than the shit I had to put with growing up in a diverse city as an autist as machoism is always way stronger in M-E cultures. They're the one that broke my nose, that beat me up and broke my arm, not my dad. But I am allowed/expected to speak ill of my dad, but not them while they caused serious mental harm during adolescence. Strange how the world changed.
我说的“偶尔”指的是两次或三次。而且是当我真的活该被抽的时候。
我真的不觉得自己受到了他们的伤害。我被我的同龄人，尤其是少数族裔同龄人伤害过，但不曾被我的父母伤害过。他们的体罚比我作为一个自闭症患者在一个强调大男子主义的以“ME”文化为主导的多元化城市里成长所要承担的痛苦要少得多，也有教育意义得多。是那些在这种文化熏陶下的其他人打断了我的鼻子，是他们让我遍体鳞伤，是他们打断了我的胳膊，不是我爸。但我却被允许/被期望去说我爸爸的坏话，而不是这些在青春期给我造成了严重的精神伤害的他们。这个世界变得太奇怪。
（“ME”文化：M-E cultures，强调自我。）
To be honest, is not like it is perfectly normal. It is just not a crime. I struggle to think of anyone that I know, younger than 40/50, who thinks that beating a child is a good idea
老实说，这不是完全正确的行为，但也不是犯罪。不过我很难想到任何一个我认识的不到40/50岁的人会认为打孩子是个好主意
I'm 44. My mother used to beat me in the typical italian nonna way, my father never touched me but used words. Words cut deeper than beating.
我今年44岁。我母亲经常用典型的意大利奶的方式打我，我父亲从不打我，而是用语言。言语比殴打更深刻。
who thinks that beating a child is a good idea
You should try r/AskAmerican. They will proudly defend the right of American parents to beat up their child.
“谁认为打孩子是个好主意”
你应该试着问问美国人。他们将自豪地捍卫美国父母殴打孩子的权利。
Well, I was talking about my experience as italian
我说的是我在意大利的经历
Dublin（都柏林）
希望有人告诉我父母（体罚是违法的）。
Yeah, nobody told Spain.
是啊，西班牙好像也没人管。
Spain（西班牙）
老实说，我不认为有必要将其定为非法。虐待儿童已经是非法的了，虽然我个人不会对我的孩子使用体罚（当我真的也有孩子），但我不认为政府的工作是说一个母亲在儿子行为不端时打他一巴掌就应该被罚款或之类的。
I'm as liberal as they come but I'm 100% okay with ther government going after people who hit their kids. Children have human rights and in this case they get hurt by someone they are completely depending on. It's psychologicaly damaging to the kids and in a way damaging to society, too.
我是自由主义者，但我100％同意政府去追捕那些打孩子的人。孩子们也有人权，在这种情况下，当他们受到来自他们完全依赖的人的伤害。这对孩子的心理伤害很大，对社会也有一定的伤害。
Germany（德国）
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
That is exactly the job of the government: to protect those who cannot protect themselves.
When you hit an adult, it's assault, but when a completely helpless child is hit the the people he or she is completely dependant on that's supposed to be OK? How fucked up in the head do you have to be to think that?
“我不认为政府的工作是说一个母亲在儿子行为不端时打他一巴掌就应该被罚款或之类的。”
这正是政府的工作：保护那些不能保护自己的人。
当你打一个成年人，这是攻击，但当一个完全无助的孩子被他或她完全依赖的人打了，这能忍？你得有多大的心才会这么想？
Spain
I mean, it's used as a punishment for a child. You can't do many things to other adults, but the children that are your responsibility are always a special case. You can remove their privacy, take their possessions, lock them in a room against their will, take away their food, refuse payment for services rendered, 'abduct' them someplace without their consent, etc. And likewise, the state forces them to spend most of the day learning between certain ages, despite their wishes. So simply saying it would be illegal if it were an adult isn't proper justification.
我的意思是，这是对孩子的一种惩罚。很多事情你对成年人做是违法的。但你负责的孩子总是一个特殊情况，你可以剥夺他们的隐私，拿走他们的财产，违背他们的意愿把他们锁在房间里，拿走他们的食物，拒绝支付提供服务的费用，未经他们同意就把他们"拐"到某个地方等等。而同样的，国家也是在不顾他们的意愿，强迫他们在一定的年龄之间，每天大部分时间都要去学习啊。所以，简单地把未成年人的情况带入到成年人里就说这是违法的，并不是一个很充分的理由。
there has to be a smarter, wiser way to educate children...
但是有更聪明、更明智的方式来教育孩子......
Spain
Probably, and I don't plan on using corporal punishment with my kids. I just don't think that for something like this (especially since the trend of avoiding this punishment is relatively recent) the government should be stepping in banning things outright and imposing fines, imprisonment, etc.
可能吧，我也不打算对我的孩子使用体罚。我只是觉得，对于这样的事情（尤其是这种避免体罚的趋势是比较近的东西），政府不应该出面直接禁止，并处以罚款、监禁等。
Have you ever tried turning off the TV, sitting down with your children and beating them?..
难道你们从来没有试过关掉电视，和你的孩子坐下来然后揍他们一顿吗？......
Europe
No need to turn off the tv to do that
不需要关掉电视
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Silesia + Toruń (Poland)（波兰）
我完全没被皮带抽过
Italy（意大利）
我妈曾经打我哥的屁股打断了一个木勺
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Croatia（克罗地亚）
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
我也是！木勺断掉的时候我们都忍不住笑了，因为这才是第一下。真糟糕的勺子。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
You have shitty spoons in Italy.
看来意大利木勺子的质量不怎么样
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Ukraine | Switzerland（乌克兰|瑞士）
My parents believed that physical punishment is unpedagogical.
我从来没有被打过。我"只是"不得不在角落里，跪在荞麦上度过一段时间。
我的父母认为，体罚是没有教育意义的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Silesia + Toruń (Poland)
I mean I wasn't beaten to the point I couldn't sit or there was any physical harm, nothing that could be called abuse but if physical punishment is legal then some people would say their abuse is just punishment
我的意思是，我没有被打到坐不下凳子的地步，或造成过任何身体上的伤害，没有任何可以被称为虐待的东西，但如果体罚是合法的，那么有些人会把他们的虐待说成是只是惩罚而已。
Germany
If you were beaten, that was abuse, plain and simple.
如果你被打了，那就是虐待，简单明了。
EU
What's corporal punishment ?
什么是体罚？
Cypriot in Germany
Assaulting minors because people think they have the right to do so just because the child is theirs.
殴打未成年人，只是因为孩子是他们的人们就认为他们有权这样做。
Punishing with violence.
使用暴力惩罚。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Physically harming kids
身体伤害孩子
It’s when your ma gives you a slap on the arse for misbehaving.
你妈因为你行为不端而给你一巴掌。
Europe|Bulgaria
Oh, I wish it was just that, for me it was being smacked with a stick that bends like a whip or being smacked around with a stinging nettles or the worst being git with the metal thing which you would use to move around the embers in your fireplace(I don't know the word for it.)
唉，我希望只是这样就好了，对我来说，是被一根像鞭子一样弯曲的棍子抽打，或者是被一根刺痛的荨麻抽打，或者是最糟糕的是被一个你用来在你的壁炉里拨动火苗的金属东西（我不知道那是什么词）抽打。
United Kingdom（英国）
那是虐待儿童。
Germany
So is "corporal punishment".
“体罚”也是如此。
United Kingdom
Not really.
My mum would give me a slap, I wouldn't consider that child abuse.
不同意。
我妈妈会给我一巴掌，但我不会认为这是虐待儿童。
Germany
Of course you wouldn't even though it is.
That's the insidious thing about child abuse: it violates the fundamental trust that children have towards their parents, but children cannot understand that and have to believe they deserve it.
你当然不会认为是，即使事实是。
这就是虐童的阴险之处：它侵犯了孩子对父母的基本信任，但孩子们无法理解，只能认为自己活该。
United Kingdom
That's because I did deserve it.
那是因为我确实活该。
Germany
No child deserves to be abused. Not even a little.
任何儿童都不应该受到虐待。一点点也不。
I’m surprised about Lithuania - for me and other children it was normal to be threatened with a belt for misbehaving. Some teachers even encouraged it, but that was 10 years ago so I’m not sure now
我对立陶宛感到惊讶-对我和其他孩子来说，被皮带威胁是正常的行为。有些老师甚至鼓励这样做，但那是10年前的事了，所以我现在不确定。
Interesting that the Vatican is greyed out as if none of them had any children ...
有趣的是梵蒂冈是灰色的好像他们都没有孩子似的......
Lithuania
as far as we know...
据我们所知......
I am sure they wouldnt obxt to a little beating...
我相信他们不会反对进行“一点”殴打的......
Wales
If you can get a young boy pregnant by doing him up the arse then the Lord truly has blessed you.
如果你能通过弄（doing up）一个小男孩的屁股让他怀孕，那么上帝真的祝福了你。
The officers of the Swiss Guard are allowed to marry and have children.
瑞士卫队的军官可以结婚生子。
Red countries are all outside of Europe ¯\\\\\\\\_(ツ)_/¯
红色国家都在欧洲以外¯\\\\\\\\_(ツ)_/¯
mrmniks
Belarus
That’s weird. I’ve never heard of anything like that in Belarus. Nobody ever touched a kid in school in my experience, don’t know about the law though.
很奇怪。我在白俄罗斯从来没有听说过这样的事情。在我的经验里，从来没有人在学校里碰过孩子，虽然不知道法律是怎么规定的。
I was never touched in school (didnt grow up in belarus), but my mom remembers getting slapped on the fingers with rulers.
我在学校里从来没有被碰过(不是在白俄罗斯长大)，但我记得妈妈用尺子拍打手指。
Turkey
This made me sad because both my parents and school teachers beat the shit out of me.
Teachers fav weapon: Ruler,chalk,notepad
Parents favorite weapon: Broom,slipper,rolling pin,backhand
这让我很难过，因为我的父母和学校老师都把我打得屁滚尿流。
老师最爱的武器：尺子，粉笔，记事本
父母最喜欢的武器：扫帚，拖鞋，擀面杖，反手
Turkey
I'm very sorry you had to go through that. I've never been beaten by anyone, but I grew up in Mersin. Currently I'm a teacher in a village in Istanbul (not even in Istanbul, quite far from the center) and I have some students who are beaten by their parents, I've talked to one of the parents and it seemed to work, and we had a teacher who were using violence but we reported him. Parents and children these days are more aware of their rights thankfully.
我很抱歉你不得不经历这些。我从来没有被人打过，但我是在梅尔辛长大的。目前我在伊斯坦布尔的一个村子里当老师（甚至不在伊斯坦布尔，离中心挺远的），我有一些学生被家长打，我和其中一个家长谈过，似乎起了作用，我们有一个老师使用暴力，但我们举报了他。很高兴的是现在的家长和孩子都比较注意自己的权利了。
European unx
It's really heartbreaking that not every country on this map is green.
让人心碎的是，这张地图上不是每个国家都是绿色的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Belgium and england wtf.
比利时和英国是什么情况。
This is a trivial law in most of the green countries. They might as well mostly be yellow. Spain, Italy, Scotland, Portugal, Eastern Europe etc all do some good beating to get those kids in line.
大多数绿色国家都只是实行了一些微不足道的小法规。他们可能大部分其实都属于黄色的。西班牙、意大利、苏格兰、葡萄牙、东欧等国都会为一些小事而体罚孩子。
Estonia
What's up with England? Why are they different from the rest of the UK?
英格兰怎么了？为什么他们和英国其他地方不同？
Wales
Short answer is, it's roughly in line with public opinion on the matter which is that it's up to the parents at home, but shouldn't be allowed in schools.
Even in Wales where it's all banned, roughly 50% of the population believe in corporal punishment, as found in a 2018 Welsh government consultation on the matter.
Edit: It's also worth considering that the Welsh government 'consultation' was after they'd announced plans to implement a ban, so you'd be right to question it's impartiality along with the likelihood of understating your support in general, and even then 50% were still in support.
简而言之，这与公众对此事的看法大致一致，那就是在家里由父母决定，但在学校里不应该允许。
即使是在全部禁止体罚的威尔士，也有大约50%的人相信体罚是合适的，这是在2018年威尔士政府对此事的咨询中发现的。
编辑：另外值得思考的是，威尔士政府的"咨询"是在他们宣布了实施体罚禁令的计划之后，所以你有理由质疑禁令的公正性，与此同时你也可能低估了总体支持度，即使颁布了禁令，50%的人还是表示支持。
Estonia
50% ! Woah, it's crazy that half the population thinks beating kids is ok...
50%！哇，有一半的人认为打孩子是可以接受的......
England
Most of those people don't picture it as a full on WWE style smackdown on little kids, but more like what they experienced as kids (e.g getting spanked on your arse because you didn't do your homework, or something).
Note: I don't support it myself, I'm just explaining what they likely picture corporal punishment as
这些人中的大多数人心目中的“体罚”并不是那种WWE格斗式的对小孩子的殴打，而更像是他们小时候所经历的（比如因为没做作业而被打屁股什么的）。
注：我自己并不支持，我只是在解释他们很可能把体罚想象成的样子
Canada
Corporal punishment doesn't necessarily mean beating kids. There is obviously a difference beating a light swat and an actual beating.
体罚并不一定意味着殴打孩子。轻拍和殴打有明显区别。
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United Kingdom
I mean the proportion who think beating a kid is fine is probably really low. The only type of corporal punishment anyone I knew experienced growing up was getting a slap in the moment. I still think it’s wrong but hardly a beating. If it left a mark it would be illegal. The debate is entirely centred around whether giving w kid a smack should be illegal (which I think it should be).
我觉得认为打孩子没事的人的比例可能真的很低。我认识的人在成长过程中唯一经历过的体罚类型就是当下被打一巴掌。我还是觉得这是不对的，但是很难说是殴打。如果留下了痕迹，那就是违法的。争论的焦点完全是围绕着给孩子一巴掌是否应该是非法的（我认为应该是）。
England
I thought it was effectively banned here in England. If you leave a mark (even just reddened skin, not necessarily a bruise) then you've broken the law in my understanding. I remember the fuss certain newspapers kicked up when it came in years ago.
我以为这在英国已经被有效地禁止了。如果你留下了印记（哪怕只是皮肤发红，不一定是瘀伤），那么在我的理解中，你就已经触犯了法律。我还记得几年前，当这种事情被某些报纸报道时是如何掀起了轩然大波的。
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